First of all, I provided some information on women and WAS because I know that men are good at problem solving. I was hoping that giving you information about where your W might be at would allow you to use your strengths to come up with solutions. Being a woman I am not so good at solutions. Pretend you are helping out your best friend and what would you tell him or her. Or if you like, consider how it would look or what advice you would give one of your children if they were in this situation. If you are good at this at work, then we have to get your emotions out of the way so you can think.
Having said that, if you want to know what the R with OM is about for her, ask - stay detached and listen to what she says his gives her. Learn what she wants. You may be giving it to her and she is blinded by other emotions, then you can find another way to show her.
If you ask her about the OM and she tell the truth. Then she will want to know what you think, be prepared to tell her. If she doesnt' tell the truth, let it go, and accept that she can't be trusted right now. Let's be honest here.
Next, if you want to be friends, it takes honesty, respect and commonalities. How can you show these to her? What can you ask from her in return. Don't be shy about asking for what you want - she needs something to respond to.
When you say that you want better communication - what are you asking for?
Traps to avoid? Don't take all the blame, don't do all the work, don't think this is all about you. Don't be afraid to do some asking, keep it easy and small and something she can't refuse.
By the way, I think things are better than you think, if she is going to the sessions, she's still trying.
I hear you bouncing off the walls emotionally, it is understandable, hope venting here helps. Know you are not alone doing this, we are all trying to do the same thing.
Having said that, if you want to know what the R with OM is about for her, ask - stay detached and listen to what she says his gives her. Learn what she wants. You may be giving it to her and she is blinded by other emotions, then you can find another way to show her.
If you ask her about the OM and she tell the truth. Then she will want to know what you think, be prepared to tell her. If she doesnt' tell the truth, let it go, and accept that she can't be trusted right now. Let's be honest here.
Thanks Kassie,
I really would like to have this honest and open discussion about OM with her, but am struggling with 2 points:
1) I can't reconcile starting this discussion and asking these questions with the the basic DB practice of "Don't initiate R discussions. My W is not talking about the R at all.
2) I really do believe that my W would simply respond (angrily and defensively) "There's nothing going on".
I am really struggling with the clash between the need for openness and honesty and discussion and the DB tenet of backing off, GALing and giving her space.
any suggestions or feedback?
Last edited by Thinker; 04/02/0902:20 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
In my sitch, people here and my IC all said that it sounded like there was a OM in there. I had no evidence at all, and although I said that I didn't think it would go well, my IC said that I should ask if I wanted to know. So a couple weeks ago, I did ask.
And of course it didnt' turn out well like expected. She flatly denied it, and then said that she was just waiting for me to twist the whole situation into something where I made it her fault. And she said that if I need to believe we are where we are because she was having an EA, then go ahead.
I did explain the reasons why I really had to ask to try to have her understand my position. And I think she understood somewhat because she unlocked her phone and asked if I wanted to check it the next day. But I still think damage was done.
So be aware if you are going to push the issue without real evidence.
You know that the OM is still in the picture and that is all you need to know...period. She has stated that you are "controlling" and I feel if you asked her directly or indirectly about the relationship....then it will be seen as controlling. If you were talking to a guy friend would you just blurt out "how is your relationship going?"...more than likely not. If he brought it up, then a conversation could follow. That might be the route to take with your wife...if she brings it up...listen...but otherwise act "as-if". You can't make the relationship end....it has to happen on its on. Especially in a situation were you wife has implied that she felt you are "controlling". Remember she is addicted to the NRE and like any other addiction...it won't stop until she wants it too.
Worry about yourself...make yourself more attractive to her. Be elusive and make her think...dress differently and make her think. Make yourself better...you might save your marriage, but more importantly you will be able to move towards the future as a rebuilt you. The time you spend chasing her is better spent becoming self aware. What do you want other than your family? You really can't love somebody else until you love yourself. Are you there? Do you look in the mirror and say "I am worth more!". Being self aware is thinking in the "I" as opposed to the "we, us, or her". When you achieve this....your wife may change her mind about you, but more importantly you will change your mind about yourself.
You can't make the relationship end....it has to happen on its on. Especially in a situation were you wife has implied that she felt you are "controlling". Remember she is addicted to the NRE and like any other addiction...it won't stop until she wants it too.
What does the acronym NRE mean?
So, in my case, this advice seems to contradict the moral obligation of notifying the OM's W of the EA. Unfortunately, both make sense. If I were to anonymously contact the OM's W simply to state "H is currently in an EA.", it sounds like it might have a blow-up effect on OM's side, but do nothing to remove the lust for OM that my W feels.
Hmmmm.... I'll have to work harder at holding back and continue to work on me and my 'Nice Guy'-ness.
:-)
Thanks LFW.
H40 (me) W34 (WAW) S6 T11 M10
Feb09: Need a break bomb Mar09: I moved to apartment to GAL, PMA, NMMNG Apr09: WAW 'dating' OM at work, positive around me lately.
In my sitch, people here and my IC all said that it sounded like there was a OM in there. I had no evidence at all, and although I said that I didn't think it would go well, my IC said that I should ask if I wanted to know. So a couple weeks ago, I did ask.
And of course it didnt' turn out well like expected. She flatly denied it, and then said that she was just waiting for me to twist the whole situation into something where I made it her fault. And she said that if I need to believe we are where we are because she was having an EA, then go ahead.
I did explain the reasons why I really had to ask to try to have her understand my position. And I think she understood somewhat because she unlocked her phone and asked if I wanted to check it the next day. But I still think damage was done.
So be aware if you are going to push the issue without real evidence.
But he HAS evidence.
I think he needs to stop avoiding the 500-lb gorilla in the room, and just call her on it. MCing will never work when one of the marital partners are actively involved in an affair, and it's only causing her to be emotionally shut off to him. If she in fact promised no-contact, and she's in contact, then THAT is where he needs to start, in my opinion.
Tell her you know, don't tell her HOW you know, and tell her it needs to stop and that you can't live in an open marriage. Gawd, would everyone on these boards please stop walking on egg-shells around their adulterous spouses????
I think what happens--the reason some of us will walk on eggshells around the cheating spouse is because we are not ready for them to say "Alright, I'm glad you've confronted me. Now I can tell you officially we're done. I want to be with that other person--not you." So unless you are ready for that outcome, you can't confront the cheating spouse. I hate that we have to walk on egg shells. I hate that the loyal spouse is doing all the work and trying save the relationship while the other spouse, the cheater gets to do whatever. It sucks. But it's very clear: if you want to save it and they don't, expect to do the very high majority of the work in the beginning.
My main issue is not walking on eggshells, it is the direct conflict between two philosophies.
Chapter 10 of DB says very clearly (at least as I read it) - don't snoop, don't confront, just LRT your a$$ off. Detach, detach, detach and focus on yourself. Snooping and confronting is focusing on the wayward spouse, not yourself. It also says that if you snoop and gather evidence, YOU CAN'T USE IT!
Other philosophies (Not just friends) say snoop, gather evidence, and blow it into the open. It shows you as strong and once in the open, it will end earlier.
Last edited by Thinker; 04/02/0906:12 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
I think what happens--the reason some of us will walk on eggshells around the cheating spouse is because we are not ready for them to say "Alright, I'm glad you've confronted me. Now I can tell you officially we're done. I want to be with that other person--not you." So unless you are ready for that outcome, you can't confront the cheating spouse.
Hunh?? That doesn't follow. Because we're afraid of the answer, we "can't" confront them??
