I do think adding the "loving" part is important in that you can't just come across as a total DIKK to a WAS -- they have to still feel loved, and not just judged.
I don't agree with that. It is when they WONDER if they have possilby LOST your love is when you can turn it around.
Regarding the DIKK.. Hard to say if that is true or not from this site. We certainly don't have that issue. I do believe however that it is always good to be nice. It needs to be done in a way that shows you are nice because you are strong enough in yourself and your self esteem that it isn't going to crush you. You will be just fine without her. I certainly wouldn't be bringing up "love" to my wife or any woman who wanted another man. If I did, it would be in the context of "did love, but am not sure how I feel now".. (seems to work quite well for the WS when they say it and doesn't stop the BS.)(Actually does quite the opposite from my research)
Quote:
Here's one of the other problems I'm seeing men, in particular, struggling with here: that's this concept of "I can't pull away, because her complaint is that I pulled away too much throughout the marriage." The problem with that is twofold:
Yep. I see this all the time too. This give them an excuse to keep pursuing and chasing. Puppy, the facts are that most of these women are interested in OM. All else is a side show to keep the BS off the trail. We allow these men on here to get us talking to them about what she was complaining about and how overcome them with something witty or smart... The answer is the same. "I will not share with another man and there is nothing to talk about except when you are moving out" (until that is resolved you are grasping at straws)
You can still make the changes that need to be made. Silently. Be nice when SHE calls you. However.. STAND STRONG on the main issue...
We would see much more success with those stances. (see Pearl's thread for an example of what happens.)
Gooch, I think we're pretty much saying the same thing. What you're calling "nice" I'm calling "loving."
I did, in fact, start using the past tense more with my wife as her affair progressed over its 3-month arc, and it did, in fact, freak her out. "I hope you end your affair before what is left of my love for you runs out" was the message, and she got it.
I only have 2 threads, second one is probably about to lock up, but so far there are only 2. Both are linked in my sig.
I'd like to clarify that in my case, I am certain that there is no OM at this time. She probably had an EA back during the spring/summer of last year, but I am convinced that that is over. It's all in my thread.
You do point out some signs from me of the bahavior you describe, I agree, but I will wait to see what you think after you read some more and get the whole picture.
Thanks in advance for taking a look! And Pearl, we can take it over to my thread from here. Thanks for letting me hijack for a few posts!!!
Thanks for commenting Gucci. I was starting to feel like everyone thought I was taking too hard of a stance. But I know what I want and expect and will only be comfortable moving forward on my terms, I appreciate your support in this.
I have been thinking about making a list of my expectations and giving it to xBF when we meet on Sunday. Here's what I have so far:
1. Financial settlement. Agree on how to split assets if we decide to permanently go our separate ways. Signed and notarized.
2. No contact with OW. Send a NC letter that I read and approve. Agree to NC under any circumstances. If OW makes contact, tell me immediately. If agreement is broken in any way then the R is over. Also will include not going to places he took OW either alone or with me.
3. Transparency plan. Full access to all email and phone records, including work accts. Divulge all "secret" accts. Daily accountability for time away from work including names and locations. Notification of any change of plans. Return phone calls within a reasonable time. (Still working on this one)
4. Counseling. He is responsible for finding a couple's counselor and scheduling appts. First appt to be no later than three weeks after financial settlement signed.
5. Dating. We are currently broken up. Dating will start slowly and will not involve sexual contact. (Don't know what to say here, but need to make it clear that he needs to step up and prove to me that he wants me and win me back.) Prior to any sexual contact he will provide proof of STD testing and clean bill of health.
So what I wanted to know is what Gucci and Puppy and the other men here would think if faced with a "wooing" requirement. Here's where I'm coming from: I need to feel like he wants to win me. I know there are other men out there who would want to be with me so I need him to realize that and act accordingly.
I know Gucci just told all the men not to go out of their way to do things for their wives, but that's exactly what I want and expect from xBF. I don't want a wussy man, but I want someone who sees me as a prize and wants to beat out other competitors to win me over. I've heard all the talk, but honestly there has been minimal effort to show me that he is the best option for me.
If you love somebody, set them free. http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g
All I can say is that if it was me in yr Xbf shoes and I was serious about reconciling, then I would NOT have a problem with any of those. I learnt the hard way by accepting my W as is during our failed recovery. I was still in BS mode and just wanted to be back. I didn't lay any laws down or make any demands. There was only one thing that I wasn't happy about and that was mentioned by W before I could say anything. She was NOT going to lose her nights out with BFF! Needless to say, looking back, there was NO commitment on her part. Why would there be, all I was doing was to take things back 2 months.
As a reference point to all men, despite you wanting show your partners, exs, etc etc that you have a caring nature, Pearl is just like 99% of all women, they do NOT like wussy men. There is a time and a place for sensitivity and closeness and fighting for their affections is not the right one.
I can say that during the last couple of weeks in my new R, I have driven off a few stragglers from her past and heard from the horse's mouth....I love it when you do that!
I have learnt so much from here from both guys and gals and am now putting it to use (albeit in different circumstances than it was meant for). I can also say, that despite the lack of communication from W, it has perked up her interest in me, too late from my point of view, but as Puppy and Gucci say...grow some and be a man
So what I wanted to know is what Gucci and Puppy and the other men here would think if faced with a "wooing" requirement. Here's where I'm coming from: I need to feel like he wants to win me. I know there are other men out there who would want to be with me so I need him to realize that and act accordingly.
Pearl,
It would depend on how you phrased all of the above, and what your demeanor was as you presented it to me, but to be honest with you -- if I was presented with the above "list of demands" -- I'd run very fast. I would draw the conclusion that this was hopeless, and that you were un-pleasable.
Puppy's got a point. He made me remember something posted a little earlier (maybe even by him) about showing him a little give and take. Not too much, just show him you are also doing something. Not sure what that could be tho.... what could/would you be willing to give up to show him your goodwill?
How would it need to be phrased to NOT come across as un-pleasable?
I know I have a tendency to be very cold in my interactions with xBF since this started. I know I need to let down my guard somewhat. But I will not be all mushy at this point. I am barely ready for baby steps.
Last edited by pearlharbr; 04/02/0906:20 PM.
If you love somebody, set them free. http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g
