I was worried that you would think I was calling you those names. I DO NOT THINK YOU ARE THOSE THINGS. I think that you are super smart and have the ability to come off, without meaning to, as those things... possibly out of self protection.
Perhaps your W feels so brazen and justified in looking forward, away from you, because she has felt that in the past. I don't really know. I'm trying to help you see what she might have perceived.
You are suffering greatly, and I am sorry. She is being inconsiderate of your feelings, and she is being foolish. She doesn't have a community of people to help her. She only has her GFs who have been listening to her cry and complain.
You are not a villain. Your W is not a villain. There is a HUGE CHASM between you. When there is space like that, lack of communication, separate sleeping quarters... all kinds of painful, worst-case-scenario assumptions can be made. Give it time, and they build up and up, totalling one huge, tragic MISUNDERSTANDING. Really. It's just a misunderstanding.
Only connection and communication can clear things up. And then you and she can decide if it's too late.
Seems that she is damaging your feelings so much, I wouldn't be surprised if you find yourself having a very hard time loving her truly and forever.
Please do not be discouraged. I really am wishing for the sunshine-y future to look like the two of you together as best friends and lovers again.
I can empathize with a lot of SP's pain, and what are obviously his very real feelings right now. He is perfectly justified in feeling the way he's feeling, and even acting the way he's acting.
I also know (and I think this is what Coach is trying to say) that feeling this way, and doing these things, won't "work."
I guess I believe there is a time for laying the first olive branch, and there is a time for self-protection. I still see SP in the need-for-self-protection stage, and I think at least SOME of what you're trying to get him to say/do right now would only be seen by his wife -- in her messed-up current state -- as appeasement and weakness, and she would just take advantage of it (at best), or hurt him further (at worst).
Yes indeed, it took years of deterioration of the marriage. Yes indeed, and I was instrumental in that.
I am clearly imperfect. I have admitted my imperfections in my earlier thread multiple times, and to WAW more times than I can count.
I have validated her feelings, I have agreed with her assessment of our situation,
So if you agree and have validated her feelings then you have some of your own issues to work on. I call them my "snakes on a brain." What worked on my killing the snakes was getting them in the open. This is the area where you "do something different" and try "180s."
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I have looked the other way with the OM
Is that really a healthy response? Could she really maybe want her H to stand up and fight for her?
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I have never once blamed her for this situation nor denied that she had every right to feel the way she feels nor called her a name. She has yelled and raged and even thrown things at me (once) since dropping the bomb, and I have stood my ground and taken it. She even tried, in a fit of rage, to change all my computer password, online and on hardware, to No1A**hole.
Anger is good coming from a woman. Took me a while to believe this. She is still interested. Numb is bad, angry is good.
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My doctor -- since doctors actually can't heal themselves -- is giving me a battery of tests to see if I have cancer. I have not laid that burden at WAW's feet, nor do I intend to.
SP, first we will pray for you. Your stress level must be off the charts so care for yourself and use your support network. I have a question also, didn't you just read the 5LLs? If so what are your W's LLs? If you don't know it's probably how she loves on you is hers and how you love on her is yours, make sense? I would share this vital piece of news with your W. I read a definition of intimacy as intomesee . This is a opportunity to be intimate on a emotional and logical level. Another analogy for you that helped me: Picture your life as having different rooms - career, father, son, husband, your hobbies, health, spiritual life, feelings...... Your W wants to be invited into every one of those rooms if you shut her out she won't want to go into the room you want (champagne room ). So you must place her first. Hard to do feeling the way you do. So you must drop your anger (frustration, annoyance, jealosy, etc.) Anger will blind you, this is the voice of experience talking. So you will not be taking advantage of her, she still is your W.
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E-mails left open on my computer bragging about her affair, chortling about how she "divorced" me on Facebook, pointing out that hopefully MC will make me "more reasonable" about the money.
Phone conversations, within earshot of me, laughing about her affair, secret winks and smiles between WAW and Enabling Girlfriend while in my presence.
Declarations that our 20+ year relationship comes down to money (yet we are freely spending on sexy new shoes, sexy new dresses, botox, workout routines, facials and mani-pedis conveniently scheduled to coincide with luxury boutique hotel bookings in Upstate City where OM lives).
Set some boundaries. She will respect you for it.
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This WAS seems to be or at least to revel in the power she has over me.
Power you keep giving her. You get the power when you start taking care of yourself. Tell us the things you are doing for yourself. Boundary - you can't mention your W in the list.
Strength and Honor Coach
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Anger is not "good" exactly...but a good sign. When I was angry with my H, while we were going through IT, he could assume correctly that I still gave a rat's... When your WAW is indifferent, you may have lost entirely. But if she will still flare up - you are still in the game. To the folks on the other end of the anger - your challenge/opportunity comes with how you respond to that anger. Don't yell back. Don't push back (figuratively, not literally). Don't defend. LISTEN. Endure...but LISTEN. Validate if you can get a word in. If you can't get a word in, validate 24 hours later - she hasn't forgotten for her throat may still be .... sore from yelling. She remembers what she was angry about.
Cheers ~
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
That's good to know that anger is good if the WAS is exhibiting it toward you. What if the WAS has always been angry with you though? Mine seems and has always had a problem with anger.
M-41 ex-W-40 Together--17 years SS-20 D-14 Bomb--2 Feb 09 WAW--6 Feb 09 Officially divorced on 2 Jun 2010!!! ex-W has a boyfriend 8 Jun 2010!!! Off we go into the wild blue yonder!!!!
Thanks for everything, everyone. All very good words and thoughts.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro," said the man, and oh how right he was.
A number of random and out-of-order responses:
1. Snide and snippy. She has actually said she wishes I were more snide and snippy and angry -- she dares me to do it. Personally I think that's because she's looking for a push, but...
2. 5LLs. Yes -- clearly hers is Quality Time, followed a perhaps medium-distance next by Words of Affirmation. During the marriage -- at least during the years since I came back from the war -- I've been performing Acts of Service, which is how I have understood love to be shown (as it was never shown by my father to my mother, whose language it was).
For my part, Physical Touch far outranks the nearest competitor, which was Words of Affirmation, by 2:1. (Thus my frustration at the lack of a sex life.)
3. OM. I have confronted and been told it's none of my business, it's nothing, just a friend, none of my business, has nothing to do w/ current sitch, none of my business, just a flirtation, none of my business and oh by the way it's none of my business and we're not going to discuss it anymore and if I want to push her out the door RIGHT NOW I'll bring it up again.
4. Hurting my feelings. Yes, yes she's doing a very fine job of that. But as I told my good friend -- a good and devout Christian man who cheerfully puts up with (with the patience of Job one might say) my Heathen ways -- I am prepared to take the hurt until the hurting is done, whichever way it goes.
5. Snakes on the brain.
Anger -- working it hard and making great progress. Stuck in traffic 35 minutes to move 2 miles -- listened to the radio, sang along in my tone-deaf way, didn't bother me a whit, whereas 6 months ago I would have been exploding.
Social-ness (for lack of a better word) (or making the effort to engage other people in social situations, one of my particular fears -- common among us, er, spies) -- since starting DB on or about 2/27 have had 7 lunches, 2 movies, a BBQ, a pub crawl, 2 tennis games, started volunteering, and started new sports lessons in a class full of strangers.
Impatience with children -- working with C and S9's C to develop new parenting portfolio. The more frustrated I get with child, the lower my voice gets.
Poor Listening -- complete 180. No interruptions. No "fixing" W's problems. Hearing and validating, undivided attention.
Since this is long, I will continue the weirdness in a follow-on.
When I found myself in the midst of turmoil...with the help of the good people here and from reading a lot of posts - I determined that one of the most dangerous things for me was just to "float" - rocking and reeling at every encounter with my W.
I resolved to sort out a "battle plan" - for better or worse...
I offer this because at the time it saved me...I had to modify it time and time again...but knowing that I had a plan, under MY control, kept me sane...otherwise I knew that I was in danger of being a bit of flotsam floating in the seas subject to whatever my W chose to subject me to.
SP - it sounds to me that you too are reeling at the moment, subject to every blow your W delivers...
My plan wasn't particularly sophisticated...it simply took care of me...without compromising my S or my love for him...and in doing so I regained self respect - it wasn't about big issues around stating boundaries or stating that my W should leave the house cos she wanted our relationship to end, in fact I left in order to ensure that my S can enjoy an as uninterrupted life as possible in the midst of all of this,
...it was about taking care of my son and then myself...
A lot of my plan involved me getting proactive and sorting out stuff as a Dad I always wished I had got involved in and by doing so getting a more realistic perspective on life...I appreciate that thats where you are anyway...but what I'm saying is what worked for me.
Getting tough and sorting out boundaries which involve saying to you W this that and the other is all very well...but that presumes that she respects that sort of treatment...really...are we living in the 1890s here? There may be a gender differences but I don't think, in the 21st century we should be looking to those stereotypes to inform our thinking or actions....
But, like never before, have human relationships been this complicated and my feeling is that we need to exercise a much more subtle approach in our efforts to achieve our goals...
When you strip it down to the bare minimum - my W doesn't fancy me any more - she fancies someone else - I can declare all the boundaries I like - but it doesn't change that fact...
In fact, to attempt to enforce those boundaries would be counter-productive to me.
And why would I want to - to persuade someone back into my life under such circumstances?
The ONLY way I would contemplate my W and I being back together is on equal terms...I love her, she loves me...
Much of whats said about standing your ground, exposing an affair and so on - I think is about preserving the respect one has for oneself, in light of the fact that clearly the spouse has lost that respect...or else she/ she would not have done what they did.
In my case - my W had lost all respect for me...it gave her free reign in her mind to do do what she did...for me to re-enter that relationship with actions demanding respect I think would have been counter-productive...
Its taken me a long time to realise such and to gain any level of respect back in my W's eyes.
Caveat to this of course - is that all situations are very different - and I can only speak with confidence from mine.
Sorry - that's been a bit of a free thought stream!
). So you must place her first. Hard to do feeling the way you do. So you must drop your anger (frustration, annoyance, jealosy, etc.) Anger will blind you, this is the voice of experience talking. So you will not be taking advantage of her, she still is your W. 
for her throat may still be .... sore from yelling. She remembers what she was angry about.