WAW - Very confused and devastated - pt 6

[confusedinpa]

Isn't saying, "she would visit" and"I would visit".. sounding like it is one parent visiting the other parent's home to visit the kids?

No wonder she is confused. Your words are confusing me. I have read your entire thread (more than once)..... and it never occured to me ONCE that you actually meant that the kids were going to "visit" the one who didn't have custody....

You know that's a good point. That's has been a problem between my wife and I.

Even with with "invitation" to go to CT with me and the boys the prior weekend. I said I would love for her to go, but would understand if she didn't want to (a few days ago she had said she didn't want to do anything fun with me). She said she felt like she wasn't invited.

Or in the past, when she said she can get her mom to watch the kids so we can go out, I would reply "If that's what you want to do". I was trying to mean, that I would do whatever she wanted to do, but she interpreted it as I didn't want to go, but would only because she wanted to.

I'm seeing/picking up the differences now. Unfortunately, even now, my wife doesn't say anything when she hears something that hurts her feelings. She lets it fester for a few days and then says something.

I'm sorry for any confusion.

[confusedinpa]

When I say great that is not wrt to your M but for you and hopefully your M.

What helped me the most and I'm not sure this is what you want to hear but at one point I just resigned myself to the fact that my M was over.

When you resigned yourself to the fact that the marriage was over, did you take it to the point of dating or just not pursuing in hopes of reviving the old one?

[volleydog]

Nope it has never crossed my mind to date. Sure I hope to revive my M but realize it may not happen. This is a time for me to work on me.

[confusedinpa]

It's oddly quiet on the email/text front from my wife. She had sent me something about getting my youngest registered for baseball this something. It's mixed emotions for me as this was the day I had been dreaming of (my oldest didn't want to try, he went soccer instead), just not in the midst of a nightmare like this.

I know I will have a blast working with him to learn how to play baseball - I have a blast with my oldest as we both learned soccer (I never played before - I was always a baseball, basketball and football guy). We already play everyday after school (aka daycare) starting last summer. We just started back up again now that it's getting nice.

I know I need to keep up a positive mental attitude, but these little things make this situation so much more emotional for me.

I also know with the limited email/text traffic from my wife, she will be in full "discussion" mode to get a custody agreement tonite.

I've got a knot in my stomach but know I need to get it out before I get home. I will be strong and happy because I chose to be. There may come a day where I am not my wife's husband, but I will always be my 2 boy's father!

[MrBond]

Wow what an animated two days.

"Even with with "invitation" to go to CT with me and the boys the prior weekend. I said I would love for her to go, but would understand if she didn't want to (a few days ago she had said she didn't want to do anything fun with me). She said she felt like she wasn't invited."

This was an invitation plain and simple. Don't beat yourself over the head about it.

The fact that she spoke up at the C session to bring up her conversation with your aunt is more of her placing herself as the victim. You notice she never wants to make herself out to be the "bad guy". So she heads off anything that might make people perceive her as such. Then when you suggest something, she says you're insensitive to her needs. It's total MLC talk and will get you twisted up if you let it. That's why it's imperative that you maintain control and stop her from continuing on when she gets like that. In some of your postings, when you show you did that, she immediately shifted gears back to how you hurt her over the years. Look at me I'm the victim here.

Well she's an adult and so are you. That's why I recommended the separation because until she sees that she's got some issues she has to deal with on her own, she'll continue to blame you for her problems. And right now you're allowing her to do so by making yourself a target. Compromise is the key.

Don't see the separation as a bad thing. And don't see it as an end thing. She needs space and she's told you that from day one. Just give it to her and not push the D. Remember a separation is NOT the end.

My W and I did the 50/50 thing where I stayed in the house and she had stayed at her sister's place. I had the kids Saturday-Monday and she had them the other times. She grew to miss them those days and your W will too. What's important is to refer your house as being "home" and maybe your W's place as Mom's place. They will not actually have two "homes", just two places to stay.

Forget about what everyone else on this board wants. What do YOU want? If you want to save your M, then keep that in mind. You go out with friends but don't date. It comes down to how long you are willing to hold out. I've made just over a year and still on the roller coaster. I never thought I could do it, but I did and am still doing it. I'll be the first to tell you that if you decide to stay on this course, you're going to be jerked around in every direction, so you need to stay slow and steady.

[PMA_Baby!]

"Well she's an adult and so are you. That's why I recommended the separation because until she sees that she's got some issues she has to deal with on her own, she'll continue to blame you for her problems. And right now you're allowing her to do so by making yourself a target. Compromise is the key."

Wow! Stuck. Very nicely put. One of the best posts I've read on this board in awhile.

[MrBond]

Thanks PMA_Baby!

Right back atcha for your great insights!

[confusedinpa]

Stuck808 and PMA_Baby!

I appreciate both of you checking in and offering all the advice.

PMA - just wanted to let you know I am pretty dense so I need to get hit with some pretty clear 2x4's at time for me to really get what people are trying to tell me. Stuck has been following my thread for a while now so he knows that already but wanted to let you know not to be afraid of being blunt.

Stuck - it really has been a crazy couple of days. Weekends are always tough. That's a good point how she was talking as the victim. I didn't pick up on that. How would you suggest I handle it when she shifts into victim mode? Do you think I should just call her out on it? Glad you're back on my thread. As you can read, a lot of craziness happened

Thanks to all!

[MrBond]

I think you should call her out on it, but don't call it that. Call it "being honest". Because that's exactly what that is.

We hit you with 2x4's when you take on the victim attitude, well your W needs that every now and then.

Of course you can't go off and accuse her of acting the way she does because she probably doesn't even realize what she's doing herself. You've already done that in the past, but the problem is that you stopped reminding her and went back to taking the blame on yourself. So in a sense you were helping her blame you.

Again, when she goes on her pity party, you gently tell her that all that was in the past and that you have changed. Everyone else has noticed except for her because she hasn't changed or doesn't want to change. But that is her choice and she is free to remain stuck in the past. It is your choice to move on to the future. Leaving is not "moving on". It is physically, but not emotionally and spiritually. All she's doing is avoiding the real problem by creating diversions.

Just be honest with her and that you will not remain her scapegoat any longer because you have changed. You might even go so far as to ask her if she wanted to take actual blood from you or revenge. I told my W to take a swing at me if I had hurt her so much emotionally as she claimed. That made her stop and think.

What is "hurt" that a person can't forget? Hate. Sure our W's say they don't "hate" us, yet they can't forgive or forget what "we" did. So they in actuality "hate" us. If a person had that much hate in them (and that's what it is) then they have no choice but to excise that thing which is us.

Think of it like your kids fighting. You see them going at it, but then you say something drastic like "here's a knife if you guys really hate each other, do something about it". They would look at each other and say of course they don't hate each other and see that what they were fighting over was actually pretty silly. Well sometimes our W's need something like that to snap them out of the blame game.

Hope that makes sense.

[confusedinpa]

Had a long converaation with the wife tonite. She started by pressing for a decision on custody. I told her that I hadn't come up with anything new but had been considering what she said on Sun. I told her of a website my DB coach suggested to dissuade WAW's that children will be fine. I put it in the context that someone suggested to look at it for custody arrangements.

She started getting mad and shifting into her "demands" mode. I shifted the discussion into communications as in her "demands mode" she sited something I said that she clearly misinturpreted.

I told her about my lunch with her mom. She acted surprised but I'm sure her mom told her. I told her how her mom had a written list of complaints. My wife was horrified and appologized for her mom. Then I talked about the communications issues her mom brought up.

I reminded her of how that was the past and how even the counselor thought our connection has improved to the point where we can talk. My wife agreed yesterday as well as tonite. So I highlighted how I was glad she brought up her concern of something I said yesterday, rather than letting it fester and build like she had in the past

Yesterday I had said that I felt it may have been better if she left back on Jan 10th like she had planned. She interpruted it that I wasn't glad to have her around as I would have just kept the kids (or something else crazy like that - I forget exactly what she said). I told her I said it because I see now how she is still hurting from the past and now see the constant reminders are constantly reopening the wounds (I used Anothernightmare's analogy of reopening a healing physical wound). She seemed surprised again and agreed.

Then she said that since I want her to leave so she can heal that I should sign a custody agreement. She went into "demand mode" again

I cut her off before really could get traction by asking her if she thought more of my proposals. She seemed to be caught off guard as she "settled down"

I then corrected her and said I didn't want her to leave. I do, however, love her enough to not stop her from feeling free to do what she wants. My preference would have been for her to heal without leaving. She said that it hadn't happened so far. I said we never even tried to talk about it. I asked her what were the things that kept reopening the wounds. She said that not an hour goes by that something doesn't hurt her again. Even when I do something that she sees as a change, she's frustrated as she wished I had listened to hear back when she cared. She said that she felt her words meant nothing. I validated and acknowledged

She then said that she feels I've changed but doesn't think I fully understand how human relationships really work. She did feel that I was trying to understand and work on that. I acknowledged and validated and said I felt I could learn a lot from her.

She then shifted back to custody and "demands mode" again. I stopped her again and challenged her threatening tone. I brought up how she threatened the relationship if I didn't agree to one of her options. I said that if the relationship means that little to her, that it is a bargaining chip, she's right, I should just sign the divorce papers tomorrow. She back pedaled and explained she was just angry and didn't mean it that way. She explained that she felt I was acting like the old me trying to duck responsibility. I clarified what I was saying and she agreed she misinterpruted.

Then I called her out on threatening counseling. I said if she's only going for me, that she can stop wasting both of our time and money. Or if she's only going as a sign to me of working with me, that I'm not surprised our marriage hasn't improved as that's not really putting effort into counseling

She said it was to prepare for a relationship, where ever it may head. I reminded it was marriage counseling so if she's showing up thinking its going to be co-parenting counseling, she fooling herself. I told her that I will be courteous and cordial but I will not be able to be friends with the woman I love and not be able to show her that after a divorce. She should go to work on our marriage relationship

Then we got back into the seperation and healing discussion. She said that she thinks that being away will give her the time and space to heal. Then after that she feels she can really decide if she wants to give the marriage another try

I then pressed my luck by asking her to consider delaying any other divorce actions as the process is extremely destructive, so it will not give us any chance of saving the marriage while she has 1 foot out the door and we're going through the other settlements. I told her just look at how distracting the custody agreement has been. The one positive is that it has really highlighted how we both have changed. Last year we would not have been able to have a conversation like the ones we had recently. She agreed. Then she said she would consider delaying any subsequent divorce actions

Then I took a page from her book and said it was getting late so we should go to bed

I think the conversation went as well as can be expected. Any thoughts?

One highlight to the day had been that it was nice enough after the kids got home that we played basketball and baseball. We all had a blast!