I agree w Gucci. I did the family home nesting thing for awhile (6 mons), which at first seemed best for our daughter. Then it just got hard and confusing for her. Which parent is on shift now? Plus you still feel the others presence which continues the feelings of being trapped and pressured to stay. You should just figure out a 2 home schedule that works best for you and your kids schedules then let her go figure out how green the grass really is. At first it will seem like such a relief to get away from this controling, obsessed jerk, but then she will hopefully realize how much she misses you. It's hard but you have to let her go in order for her to find herself and then hopefully her love for you again.
My thoughts would be number 1 or 3 and stay away from number 2. I think if you try number 2 it's going to put your W on the defensive.
Volleydog,
Thanks for the input - my wife wound up jumping in but I wound up covering all 3 throughout the session anyway. I journaled it, so I would be curious how you think it went.
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
Also important to let go of needing her to be there. If she threatens to not go just say "okay, it's your choice".
She has tried to use it as a bargaining chip, take that chip away from her by not needing her to be there.
When she threatened the counseling again last weekend, I told her that if she was going just to placate me, that she should just stop wasting our time now. I asked her to explain why she was going at all.
She said she would be fine going to counseling by herself to work on herself, but felt since I wanted her to go she would go to work on our relationship, either divorced, separated or married. I told her to stop right there. If she was going just because I wanted her to go, that was wasting our time as well. She danced around a bit, but didn't say flat out she wanted to go to save our marriage, but was going just to make sure she wasn't making a wrong decision.
Last nite, when I asked our counselor how do we continue to work on us after she moves out, our counselor said by continuing with counseling. She then asked my wife if she was still planning on coming after she moved out like my wife had said the prior week. My wife said yes.
THanks for checking in again
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
When the counselor ask how it's going? I'd say it's going well. I'm continuing to work on my issues. To become the best man I know I can be. The best father, friend, and so on. Im continuing to realize how my previous actions and words have hurt others around me and what changes I needed to make. etc. etc. No finger pointing. No specifics. Be as objective as u can be. Just be matter a fact, dont go overboard with the changes though. See how she reacts and then validate her feelings. Everything u hv been doing. Thats my 2 cents.
Good luck. B
PMA_Baby!,
Thanks for the advice. I think it worked well when I used it. I used it to segway into how I see how the hurt my actions/words had caused her in the past is still there and that the space is being creating will help heal.
It's still tough for me to stomach, but this is happening whether I like it or not. I just need to deal able to make the best of the situation.
Thanks again
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
My thoughts are that you are not really "listening and hearing" what she is saying.
Her MAIN focus right now is that she does NOT want you to be coming over to her place to see the kids.
I certainly don't think it is normal for a couple to separate and have one of them have their visitation with the kids at the others place.
My take is to man up and let her go. I think you need to face the fact that the kids are going to have two places to call home for the time being. Are you sure you aren't holding this over HER head as a way to not let go?
I didn't propose that I would visit the kids at her place. I was suggesting that the kids would come over and visit me at the family home where I am staying. It made the most sense to have them visit me and the family home on the weekends as she is in an apartment and I am still in the family home with the yard and all the kids outdoor toys (bike, climber, etc.) I just did not want the kids to have to be "suitcase" kids, where they are carrying their bag back and forth from the 2 homes. I just want them to have 1 home where they sleep every nite to give them some continuity.
So what my latest proposal would be to have them visit me at the family home - she could drop them off and pick them up or I could pick them up and drop them off - on Sat and Sun (8 AM to 8 PM) and 2 nites a week (I would pick them up after school/day care and I could either drop them back off or she could pick them up by 8 PM). My original proposal was for them to stay in the family home and she could take them to visit as much as she wants. She didn't like that either.
The disagreement is that she wants them to stay overnite at my place 50% of the time. I believe its because she doesn't want to lose any "freedom" to do whatever she wants to do.
I'm sure she feels that I'm holding this over her head as a way not to let her go. I don't think I'm doing that, but I think it's a very appropriate challenge gucci.
Thanks for your 2x4
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
You should just figure out a 2 home schedule that works best for you and your kids schedules then let her go figure out how green the grass really is. At first it will seem like such a relief to get away from this controling, obsessed jerk, but then she will hopefully realize how much she misses you. It's hard but you have to let her go in order for her to find herself and then hopefully her love for you again.
I appreciate your support PMA_Baby. I hope that she realizes that she misses me, but I'm not very hopeful....
May I ask how you handled Dark/Dim or what you did when you were separated?
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
I went dark. Didnt call or txt or anything unless I had a question abt our daughter. I let her and still let her initiate any communication. It's up to them to figure out if they are willing to do the work. Just be nice and answer questions when it comes to the kids. Focus on figuring out your needs and wants. That's what GAL/PMA are all about. Use this time to figure out what makes you happy. If you're happy then your kids are happy. Letting go and detaching are the hardest part as you've found out, but comepletely necessary when the WAS's get that point. Let her go and give her the space she is asking for. She is far from done. You are slowly figuring out what she needs and wants. She is still hurt. She doesn't believe the changes are for real or permanant. Just be consistent and respectful. Develope a "whatever it takes mentality". Part of that is accepting where she's at and that this is on her timeline not yours.
Buckle in for a long ride. Rememeber it goes both ways. "For better or worse. Good times and bad..." She at her worse and bad times right now. Now's when you show what kind of husband and father you really are. Man up buddy!!! It might take another year, but what's that over a lifetime. A drop in the bucket. Figure out what you truly want then commit to it.
I went dark. Didnt call or txt or anything unless I had a question abt our daughter. I let her and still let her initiate any communication. It's up to them to figure out if they are willing to do the work. Just be nice and answer questions when it comes to the kids. Focus on figuring out your needs and wants. That's what GAL/PMA are all about. Use this time to figure out what makes you happy. If you're happy then your kids are happy. Letting go and detaching are the hardest part as you've found out, but comepletely necessary when the WAS's get that point. Let her go and give her the space she is asking for. She is far from done. You are slowly figuring out what she needs and wants. She is still hurt. She doesn't believe the changes are for real or permanant. Just be consistent and respectful. Develope a "whatever it takes mentality". Part of that is accepting where she's at and that this is on her timeline not yours.
Buckle in for a long ride. Rememeber it goes both ways. "For better or worse. Good times and bad..." She at her worse and bad times right now. Now's when you show what kind of husband and father you really are. Man up buddy!!! It might take another year, but what's that over a lifetime. A drop in the bucket. Figure out what you truly want then commit to it.
You're doing great! Keep going.
God Speed. B
PMA_Baby!
Thanks for sharing how you handled the separation.
I actually had lunch with her mom today - first time ever. I'm not sure why I wanted to talk to her, but just felt it was time as in the last 11.5 years I've known my wife, I've talked to her mom twice. One of those two times was to let her know that I wanted to marry her daughter (my wife "suggested" I do that).
Anyway, she spent most of the time confirming my wife's grievances. She actually brought a list (fortunately it was only on an index card)! Once we got past that, she said regardless of the outcome, she would always be available to help with the kids if I needed it. I did get into how I didn't get it before, but did in Jan. She still doesn't know my wife filed for divorce as all my wife told her is that she wants to leave. She hasdn't told her that it was in a couple of weeks either, just that it would be soon. I told her mom that I'm making changes but feel like it may be too late. I still believed in the marriage and want it to work but don't have much hope. She wound up praying for me after lunch.
I thanked her for taking the time to have lunch with me.
One of the things that her mom brought up, is that my wife told her that she wasn't invited to the trip to the CT the prior weekend. I told her that I said I would love to have her come, but understood if she didn't want to. Her mom, no big surprise, sided with my wife, saying that it didn't sound like I really invited her.
Part of me is struggling as it seems like right after that trip she was hell bent on moving out. What I have to remind myself is that earlier that week, she had told me that she wanted to move out. If selling the house was the only way for us to afford for her to do that, she had called a real estate agent and made an appointment to meet with us that weekend.
I was torn about selling the house, but I think I made the tactical mistake then of telling her the Friday morning that I was leaving with the kids to CT, that I would want to keep the house and the kids in it as much as possible to offer them stability. If she wanted to leave, I love her so much that I would not hold her back. I guess timing is everything as she then spent that time that weekend finding a place and buying things for it.
Maybe it's the best as she was feeling trapped so the relationship wasn't getting better with her in the spare bedroom and feeling that way. It was better for the kids, but that would have been a short term fix as a divorce in PA is automatic 2 years after it's filed. If she doesn't heal and see that their can be a good life with me by then, it's over.
I know I can't be watching the clock like a countdown timer. As someone had pointed out earlier, I just need to take every minute and live it to the best I can.
Anyone else have any thoughts/suggestions on how to handle it once she moves out?
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
I think PMA gave you great advice. Right now the only and best thing you can do is give her space. Don't call except if she has the kids to talk with them. If she initiates conversations with you great but make them short and try to end the call first, not in a rude way but you don't want to push it.
You are probably in for a long ride, if you're patient things will work out great. When I say great that is not wrt to your M but for you and hopefully your M.
What helped me the most and I'm not sure this is what you want to hear but at one point I just resigned myself to the fact that my M was over. Only when I reached that point did I give my W enough space that she started to realize the changes I've made are real and not for her. We're still a long way away from a M but closer than six months ago. Even in saying that it wouldn't surprise me if we still got a D, but I'd be ok.
Me:40 W: 39 T: 17 years M: 15 years S-9 D-6 D final 11/10/2009
"We are all faced with a series of great opportunities brilliantly disguised as insoluble problems."
I didn't propose that I would visit the kids at her place. I was suggesting that the kids would come over and visit me at the family home where I am staying.
Maybe I am missing something here... You posted the following quote....
Quote:
I said I thought she would be happy as I would have preferred she would visit so they would stay in their family home with me but I knew that wasn't what she'd want. So in the interest of giving them stability of 1 home, I would visit. I wanted full responsibility but she didn't like that so this was my next best thing to give our kids stability. Plus she had said that she would want the kids as much as possible. So what was the problem?
Isn't saying, "she would visit" and"I would visit".. sounding like it is one parent visiting the other parent's home to visit the kids?
No wonder she is confused. Your words are confusing me. I have read your entire thread (more than once)..... and it never occured to me ONCE that you actually meant that the kids were going to "visit" the one who didn't have custody....
