Need Help handling affair thats still going on

[25yearsmlc]

Dear KJ,

Okay, it's late and this is long, but you bring up so many issues and you are new to this...
FIrst please read the DB books, especially the Divorce Remedy one, as it focuses a bit more on DB techniques and not quite as much on bashing the concept of divorces in general, which WE all "get" anyhow...but you need to apply the principles you are reading about and posting about here and, sweet KJ, you are not.


If you think you have been DBing and you are reading the real books, by now you see you were mistaken. We've all been there.
The good news is that maybe when you really do apply them, you'll see results.
Just in reading a few of your posts I see you are doing almost everything it says NOT to do....so snap out of that, come up with a plan and STICK with it....Lots of us are around to help you formulate yours.

I see by your registration date you just found all this out in October and nothing before that indicated a serious problem to you? Have you searched inside for your role in this situation?

This is not about blaming you but protecting you. How so? B/c when you go to a marriage c and say "we" have a problem...if the c says, "YOUR H" is the problem, there are a lot of w's/LBSers who'd say "YAY...IT IS HIM, NOT ME!" and they'd be stupid for saying that.

Why? b/c if there's nothing you are doing that can improve then YOU'RE TOTALLY HELPLESS as you are already just fine and perfect...(aside from how unrealistic that is, I'm really trying to show you that there are practical meaningful GOOD reasons for searching within HARD and Bravely so that you improve as a woman)--fixing your flaws, doing some 180s', growing and becoming the best woman you can be, or as I am wont to say, "GAL and Be a woman only a fool would leave". So you see, if your h is "the" problem and you played no role in this, damn. You have NO control over your h, or his behavior or YOUR LIFE in the near future and now it means that the kids futures, their lives and the lives of their children (and even the marital "legacy" they leave behind is ALL GOING TO DEPEND ON YOUR H CHANGING???? Let's hope not and Of course not. You control you and all your reactions to what life throws at you.

When I go to mc, I want to be "the" problem b/c I trust and know that I Will damn well do whatever it takes to get my ego and pain and anger and sense of self righteousness out of the way, so that I can rebuild, restore or reconstruct a strong marriage with a foundations I HELPED make -- and THEN I'll FEEL SAFE... I can only control me and my reactions to what life throws at me. If I have to trust that he's "fixing his issues"...um, no that does not make me feel safe. Blaming OW is a bit too easy to do, though God knows it does not help your sitch and IS infuriating...

I'm going to give you some background on signs of MLC that were alluded to earlier and I thought I'd throw in a few other things in too. My sitch seems to be progessing well and that is consistent, IN HINDSIGHT, with MLC but I could never be sure at the time...but there are some factors in addition to what you read earlier, to look for, while bearing in mind that this does NOT change what you must DO.

Yes your h is conflicted. That is clear. As to whether he is in MLC or found his "real love/happiness", (in his mind anyhow) is not clear. But your approach has to be the same. In a very important way, you need to see that it does NOT matter whether 1-this is a transient weird fluke issue from the past that reared its' ugly head, or 2-this is the new and permanent jerk h so get used to it cuz he aint' gonna improve and likely will spiral downward so guard your coins and valuables, or 3- he's in full blown MLC and IF SO, 4-how long will it take and 5-how long can you wait AND OH BY THE WAY.....most, do not come back to the LBSers anyhow so you may be "waiting for nothing"" and 6- even if he does come back bruised and tattered and maybe NOT improved...do YOU Want that in your life then??? Lots of unknowns...what to look for and what you DO know are listed below...

First, The only real diff in MLC vs WAH/jerk, is in your hopes and expectations and I find that many LBSers want to say MLC b/c they cannot understand the behavior any other way and even with the MLC, it is not behavior we want to see or believe is happening. But how relevant is it? Just relevant for your heart.

So you know, I'm coming from a pretty good place in this topic. My h apparently had a MLC of sorts. And we have reconciled. But he never said he was a WAH and he always SAID he didn't want a divorce. He simply wanted to live apart for a year or two to get training for something I strenously opposed for several rational financial emotional and familial reasons. It cost us a fortune but thanks to my filing for a sep, our house did not get mortgaged in order for him to "invest" more in the "gold rush" his heroes were telling him the tundra would provide....

In some ways his career had taken over our lives and I had bought into that for some time, he is a physician and the schooling and training had unrelentingly long hours that were fully consuming...and a sense of entitlement crept up in him that I enabled...he "deserved" to be happy b/c he worked SO HARD (and he did and he does still), to spend money on things without really consulting or inviting me to participate... and at first I was glad he bought some "toys" for himself, but wished I had been invited along. THat behavior was NEW...And repeated in a short time. Soon he evolved into a full fledged jerk. But the behavior was drastically different than our marriage had been.

Lots of out of character things, no calls to his family, definite money weirdness (which I learned a lot from--my L was a Godsend, never provoking but always protecting--great motto) and failing to pay bills on time or at all (UNprecedented), more overt selfishness and the interactions with the kids took a nosedive. This was a father who was busy in the past BUT when home, was really present with the kids. Homework, coaching, etc. But then, poof!! Had to go to train SOME MORE....and then start a JOB 3000 miles away...irrational choices, truly. I mean, NOT debatable IN HINDSIGHT...but at the time, I may as well have been speaking to my bowl of oranges. I could not reach him, but I COULD annoy him and that is what you are doing with your h with your "friendship talks". Those are fake attempts at intimacy under the guise of an olive branch. Forget that. IF you can be friends, it will happen in TIME....(FOR THE RECORD, I have two relatives who divorced, only to remarry their spouses YEARS later...they were happier the 2nd time around. But there was no immediate friend talk; that develops naturally as you co-parent and the other spouse sees you in a different light, from A DISTANCE...with objectivity and maybe through the eyes of another man...

I don't know what your h is doing or feeling. Can't "diagnose" him yet. But I do know that most men WITHOUT OW's make financial plans for leaving well in advance of the departure. So while the w knows nothing, there are USUALLY funds being shifted, bills not paid, pre-paid, assets hidden, sheltered, liquidated, etc. Statistically, this is dramatically more likely when there is an OW...sorry, those are the facts.

In your favor is that you are the bread winner so HE has more to lose in a divorce /bc how will he support himself then? Will OW support him? (I bet That's super attractive to OW...something tells me she does not know how much you make versus him...does she?) Also you have more invested though so in a way, you are risking more now and able to lose more while he puts money into a "business" that YOU KNOW is not going just to business. Now you might face IRS hassles and there is NO "innocent spouse" rule for the IRS. Lovely.

A third of divorces that are filed, are never finalized. See a L asap to learn your rights. READ THE DB BOOKS.

Stop all R talks. DO NOT INITIATE THEM and when he calls, be the one to end the conversation. NO ILYs. NO arguments when he revises the M. If he says something you really think is waaaayyy offff AND important, you can say "I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't recall it that way at all." And drop it. Now, if he says something with a grain of truth in it about you, like maybe you were too impatient or shot down something he really wanted out of hand. Since you want him to know that m to you WOULD be better now than before, you CAN say "You have a point. I should have done "X" sooner." If that makes you feel too vulnerable (dont' fall into the trap of feeling the need to be right is more important being happy...make sense?)

or if you think you did the best you could given the givens but now see it in anew light, say that!! for instance...say "Yes, if I could do things over again I'd do a lot of them differently" and let him wonder.
He'll KNOW you are changing by your ACTIONS + TIME (not words) and you are doing it maturely and making it safer for him to say a few things that way too, without you jumping on his comments to either argue OR start assuming he is moving closer...just listen to those comments and react as positively if you can.

If he persists, you have to summarize in < 3 sentences and repeat that you don't recall it that way and say something positive, like "yes the school years were hard, but I remember a lot of laughter, (or something that was TRUE and positive for you, friends, adventure, great sex, whatever, and move on happy in YOUR recall) But this is down the road KJ. Right now that will almost all sound like you are pressuring/pursuing/pleading....I only say these sentences b/c a lot of people want to "rehearse" ahead of time for things b/c they get flustered.... If he attacks you, depending on the level of attack like a vicious one, you say "I won't listen to any more of revised history to rationalize your behavior, let alone this disrepect. I deserve better" and LEAVE THE ROOM...CALMLY...ALWAYS CALM...the minute you whine or yell or sound angry, you'll become a "bitch" in his eyes and that will validate his choice to leave you. Don't fuel the negatives, counter with positives.

Your h WILL feel defensive...make what you must say SHORT...you have NOT been doing that in case you think you have....) And for the most part, you don't need to say anything right now. It's just that you will "run" into him for a bit more. And you'll engage b/c you are not doing the DB principles yet. DO THEM. They work. Not always. But more often than any other approach I've seen for m's at this stage of things.

IF he does talk to you about things other than R talk, then listen like a lover/friend. (without pointing it out). Applaud the 1% of things he does/says that are positive. His fathering, helping around the house, whatever. At this point, you are trying to do two things; contrasting the warmth and love of your home (including fun time with the kids) with the "new wacky NOT FLAWLESS OW, AND you are also GAL and becoming a woman only a fool would leave [/b[.

Nothing about what you NEED from him, except about the kids (you can "need" toknow if he's going to get them at school) but the things about what you need or expect from him NOW are insane to bring up. They are the least of his concerns...

right now he may feel suffocated by you (said he can't take it anymore--honey, something you are doing is NOT WORKING and we like to try an approach to things that don't work, called DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT....like a 180--- and he may feel he is underachieving which he may see as your fault for "always doing
"X" something to him, like dumping kid work on him or house chores since he works from home, so you are really why he isn't doing better--- OR you don't make him feel like a man the way OW does, blah blah blah....

Back off. Detach lovingly, affirm and validate the positives. Say nothing about R talk and for God's sake why would you OFFER to help him look for a place to live after asking him to live at home??? Come on. Drop the matter. HE KNOWS you want him home. The 180 will be when you start acting as if life without him will NOT suck for YOU....which will (and I would bet a lot on this) make him wonder like hell, if he is doing the right thing. If he's' such a great catch and you are such a bad one, how come you are coming to terms with this? Why aren't you a wreck? (don't get sucked into thinking that begging him to come home will "prove" you love him and THAT will get him back....never seen it work for long. At best it gets the pity reconciliation which deteriorates into contempt pretty fast.

THE PLAN

GAL, be upbeat in front of him, if he asks how you feel about the troubles you two are having or the sep or divorce (depends on the stage you are in) be resigned to his tragic mistake, accepting his incomprehensible need to follow his path... knowing YOU will be fine, moving forward, growing, meeting new people, going to exciting places and doing interesting things...and you are deeply sorry about the damage to the kids but alas, you know YOU"LL be there for them --and you hope he will too b/c you know he loves them....[b]and leave his life status unsaid...

it is NOT relevant to your life plans if he is happy or sad. YOUR Happiness is what matters to you and only you can make yourself happy. NOT HIM...(All that MAY matter at his end, is whether he wants to be married to you some time down the road...) You will know if that happens.

Hope this helps more than confuses. Touched on a number of topics.

I'll never say that my m is "fine" b/c it feels as if you are never to be complacent again. Some people have been sleep walking in their m's and for my awakening, thru this crap, at least for this, I am grateful. And for the R I have with God, which is a lot better too. I am awake now.

Oh, also, agreeing on your marital history is NOT needed. Took me so long to get this. But It is a waste of time. What you will need to do to reconcile, is agree about going forward...so bag the goal of agreeing on why or how you two got here. Figure out what you'd do differently. And stick to "the Plan"...
This DOES get easier...two steps forward, one back-- and sometimes 5 forward and 0 back...

(( j ))