So, back to the question - how do I do Dark/Dim without abandoning my 180?
Maybe I wrong with this but I think people confuse dark/dim with cold. It doesn't have to be that way. For me I went dim wrt when I called my kids she always get on the phone after so I would just be nice ask her if theres anything I need to know about K's school and end the call. I usually did the "well I'm going to let you go", since to me it seemed nice but it's obvious that I'm the one that is getting off the phone first.
Me:40 W: 39 T: 17 years M: 15 years S-9 D-6 D final 11/10/2009
"We are all faced with a series of great opportunities brilliantly disguised as insoluble problems."
I'm also struggling with what to do about the counseling session tonite.
I know many people don't think it's helping the relationship at all. I'm not sure if I could argue that it's helping, but is it hurting?
It always starts by the counselor asking us how it's going. My wife always differs to me to go first. I'm tempted to go one of 3 routes.
1 - If my wife differs, politely say, it seems like I always go first and wind up monopolozing the session with what I have to say. Is there anything that you would like to talk about?
2 - Talk about how she is moving out in under three weeks and ask how do we work on our marriage. I would suspect that my counselor will as my wife is she is willing to work on the marriage and take it from there.
3 - Recognize what my wife had said over the weekend how she still feels hurt when she sees me and what can we do to help heal?
Any thoughts?
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
Anybody? Our counseling appointment is in 4 hours....
I know I'm not suppose to lead the sessions, but I always get sucked into the how is everything going question.....
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
Also important to let go of needing her to be there. If she threatens to not go just say "okay, it's your choice".
She has tried to use it as a bargaining chip, take that chip away from her by not needing her to be there.
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
I would treat it as if it's your own counseling session.
When the counselor ask how it's going? I'd say it's going well. I'm continuing to work on my issues. To become the best man I know I can be. The best father, friend, and so on. Im continuing to realize how my previous actions and words have hurt others around me and what changes I needed to make. etc. etc. No finger pointing. No specifics. Be as objective as u can be. Just be matter a fact, dont go overboard with the changes though. See how she reacts and then validate her feelings. Everything u hv been doing. Thats my 2 cents.
I appreciate everyone's input for tonite's session
My wife surprised me by jumping in as soon as the counselor asked how it was going. She said the weekend was emotionally exhausting and recounted the visit by my mom and aunt. She complained how she felt they disrespected her by them saying she was stupid and wasn't thinking things through. It sounded like she was developing a chip on her shoulder that she needs to prove them all wrong that she can make it. She didn't bring up the part of how I stood up for her and when I saw what my aunt was doing. Guess that's part of WAW rewriting history.
Our counselor then started exploring the relationship between my mom and my wife. Then my aunt and my wife. Then me and my mom. I really didn't see where it was going
I listened and empathized as my wife vented. I told our counselor that I felt bad for my wife as I had asked my family to show their love and support by respecting the decisions being made during our situation. I shared how hurt I saw my wife was when my aunt was lecturing. I said that was one of the things I learned this week as I was working on my issues. I see the things I said and did really hurt her. But I understand now even though I have changed somewhat, the hurt my wife has is still there.
My counselor recognized all my changes over the past several weeks and asked my wife what she thought
She sees how I'm much more emotionally there (before I was just mechanically there) for hugs and kisses.
She then said I still have a lot to learn as she felt I was narrow minded relative to custody. She felt I thought there was only 1 way to do it (a single home) and wasn't considering alternatives. She did recognize that we both agreed that stability for the kids is a priority
I said while I do not agree with the decision to seperate. I do respect it as this is what my wife wants. Now I understand that because its what the woman I love wants, it should also be what I want, even if its not what I would prefer
I then asked how do we continue to work on the relationship after a separation. The counselor said it is part of a process where we need to both heal as we are both hurting. That would be a big loving act we can show each other is to see each other's hurt
The counselor did say that another element is that my wife last week had agreed to continue attending counseling after she moves out
The counselor then brought up how she sees how when we first came in, she didn't see any connection at all. Now she sees we are starting to develop connections as we are communicating more
My wife surprised me when she agreed that we are talking more and I am much more receptive to listening. She brought up our discussion on disciplining our oldest son. She felt in the past I never discussed it with her and would over rule her. Now she feels we talk and I ask for her input.
That's where the session ended
On the way home my wife commented about how she thought it was a good session. I asked if there was anything in particular. She said no, just overall
Then she asked if I thought about our custody discussion from last nite. I said I had spent time going over our conversation, but didn't come up with any new conclusions. She said she needs me to think about it
I then asked if she thought more of giving our relationship another chance. She said she sees the seperation as helping by giving her space and time to think. Not a very clear answer in my mind
Then she jabbed back about the custody agreement again. I over reacted by saying that I feel that she is trying to threaten our relationship with this custody agreement. She said that she was just joking. But I said it just reminded me of how and what she said last nite. She got very defensive and said it's not what she meant. She said I had told her I wasn't going to hold her back from what she wants but feels by not giving an agreement, my actions are not following my words (which is one of her issues in the past)
Then she said that if I didn't come up with an agreement, she would just move and take the kids for a week and then bring them back for ny week
I tried to shift gears to talk about what she was planning on moving. That didn't go well either
Fortunately we got home and had to stop talking as her mom was there. We got ready for bed and just chatted lightly.
When she went to the spare bedroom, I took a page from her book from this morning
I knocked on the door and asked, "Are you mad and did not say good nite back on purpose?" She responded "No, I didn't hear you. Good nite". I then walked away
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
She woke me up as usual this morning to get ready for work. One difference was she asked how was I doing this morning - normally she just says good morning and that she's out of the shower. We chatted lightly about non-relationship stuff (i.e. the weather, she fell asleep right away - she went to bed before 9:30). I just told her I was fine - although I realized last nite as I was going to bed, yesterday was the first day where we didn't hug/kiss at all. Oh well, I know that's something I'm going to have to adjusted to.
After I got ready, I headed downstairs. Again, just tactical discussion on kids sutff. She started to head back upstairs and gave my oldest a kiss as I take him to school. Before she headed upstairs, she turned around to say something to me as I was walking to get my oldest moving off the couch. She walked towards me like she wanted a hug. As I started to give her one, she asked me to crack her back, so I did. I broke away and gave her a kiss on the check.
She is leaving soon. I know she will be pressing the custody agreement again. She seems to have it fixed in her mind how she wants to do it. I don't like any of the options, but then again, I don't like the divorce or the separation either.
It's tough to negotiate for something you don't like the circumstances for. I guess I just need to make the best of it.....
I did talk to my lawyer yesterday afternoon (about $200 worth...) He gave me some thoughts/suggestions to work with.
I need to remember at this point, I need to treat it as a business deal. It doesn't seem right though..... Any thoughts?
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
My thought is that your last point is the point. It's weird to think about, but the Divorce -- the legal proceeding -- has nothing to do with your marriage and nothing do with your feelings for WAW. It's all about bizness.
My thoughts are that you are not really "listening and hearing" what she is saying.
Her MAIN focus right now is that she does NOT want you to be coming over to her place to see the kids. (which is WHY she has given you almost every option in the book EXCEPT the one you want.) She is wanting to get away from you and you are not listening or hearing that statement from her. (which has been consistent) She KEEPS bringing it up but is scared to hurt you with the truth. She hopes that you "get" it without her having to say so.
To be frank, I actually agree with one of HER options here. I certainly don't think it is normal for a couple to separate and have one of them have their visitation with the kids at the others place. It comes across as a way that you can still be "checking" up on her. It seems far more confusing and just doesn't seem to make sense. Do you honestly think the court is going to agree to one of you "visiting" the kids at the other's place, when you both have a place of your own? I don't.
My take is to man up and let her go. I think you need to face the fact that the kids are going to have two places to call home for the time being. Are you sure you aren't holding this over HER head as a way to not let go?
