WAW - Very confused and devastated - pt 6

[MrBond]

Oh and in terms of my W. She was gone for 5 months.

[confusedinpa]

Oh and in terms of my W. She was gone for 5 months.

Did she say what made her come back?

My wife and I had a rough conversation tonite. We talked about my oldest son's issues first but then she brought up custody. She didn't have anything new to add to her 4 options (every 2 days, every 3 days, every 7 days, Mon-Thurs/Fri-Sun swapping every other week). I had me with sole custody and nesting.

She was upset we still didn't have an agreement. I said my primary concern was stability for the kids as I did not want them to have 2 places be home. So I then offered she could have sole custody and I would visit every weekend plus 2 nites a week. She didn't like that as she felt I was ducking responsibility. I would only be there for the fun times. That would be the old me

She said that she would stop going to counseling and I should sign the papers then as this means I really hadn't changed. I said I thought she would be happy as I would have preferred she would visit so they would stay in their family home with me but I knew that wasn't what she'd want. So in the interest of giving them stability of 1 home, I would visit. I wanted full responsibility but she didn't like that so this was my next best thing to give our kids stability. Plus she had said that she would want the kids as much as possible. So what was the problem?

She freaked out. She said would just take sole custody and I wouldn't be able to visit at all since she thought it would be tougher for her to explain why they only see me a few hours at a time each time.
I shifted gears to try and diffuse the emotion. I started by being compassionate and saying I see how she's mad and asked her what did she want from me. She said 1 of her 4 options. I told her I didn't imagine that would have been her reaction to my proposal. I thought she would be happy having the kids but I would want to visit to stay in their lives.

She said that we would be in court then to have them tell us. I would say if that's what she wanted to do, I would get my proposal as I can waive custody and she could not refuse visitation (although I may only get every other weekend and 1 day/week)

She threatened stopping counseling again. I asked her to pause there and said if she was going just to placate me, that she should just stop wasting our time now. I asked her to explain why she was going at all as my perception of her threat to coerce an agreement out of me.

She said she would be fine going to counseling to work on herself, but felt since I wanted her to go she would go to work on our relationship, either divorced, separated or married. I told her to stop right there. If she was going just because I wanted her to go, that was wasting our time as well. She danced around a bit, but didn't say flat out she wanted to go to save our marriage, but was going just to make sure she wasn't making a wrong decision.

She then hinted about going every other week instead of every week as it just seemed to be so much. I didn't respond - not sure if it makes sense to put it into an agreement as forcing her to go isn't going to help either

She then got back to custody as she said she can't leave without one. She then said it was late and she was tired

I asked her to wait a minute and said I wouldn't want her to feel trapped because of it. I then tried to be compassionate by saying I understand that she is still hurting and I can see now how unfair it was for me to ask her to work on the relationship while she was still hurting. I told her perhaps it may have been better for her to leave on Jan 10th so she could have been healing. She seemed surprised by that statement

She then started saying she feels stupid as she thinks I'm trying to control her as she cancelled Mon's mediation hearing under the impression we would be able to work out an agreement. I told her that the mediation hearing would have yielded the same result as tonites conversation. Although tonite I felt we were able to talk more constructively as a divorce is destructive, so each step is designed to be destructive.

I told her I felt we understand each other much better now than we would have after a one hour mediation hearing. She agreed but thought I would have listened to a mediator. I told her he wouldn't have said anything that she had already offered.

She then explained her position again and challenged my position of having the kids just have one home.

I thanked her for taking the time to explain it to me. I reminded her I'm not a mindreader and need her to be very clear when she has something on her mind. As it was 30 minutes after she said she was tired, I told her we should just go to bed and we could talk more later this week

As she went upstairs, she said it would be tomorrow as she needs something soon

She cam back down to get her Ipod. We joked about other things for a few minutes and said good nite

I think she is in a big rush to leave and has been staying this whole time for custody. I'm still not certain why she's going to counseling, I'm debating whether to challenge that or talk about her still being hurt in the session tomorrow. Any thoughts?

I'm also torn on the custody hearing. If I give it to her, she is gone. If I don't she feels trapped, but the kids stay in their family home longer without being disruptive. That is the short term fix as she will never work on the relationship at that point. Any thoughts?

[confusedinpa]

She text me from the spare bedroom at 11:45 PM

Un(?)/fortunately I thought it was a work email coming in so I didn't check it until 12:00PM (I was journalling)

She asked "R u sleeping yet"

I replied "No" and when I didn't get an answer after a 5 minutes, I sent another one saying "Guess you are. Have a good nite sleep".

Instantly I got "Not sleeping yet but getting tired"

Then I replied "Wish I could say the same (about being tired). I know you're tired hun. See you in the morning"

She replied "K"

Then I asked "What did you want when you texted a little earlier?" - I see this is where I started pursuing. I keep falling for it

She; "Nothing it was just taking me longer than normal to get comfortable and fall asleep and i was wondering if u were up too but then i started getting more relaxed" - I suspected she wanted to talk

Me: "K - I have a feeling I'll be up for a bit" - ack, more pursuing

She: Try to get some sleep

Me: "K - sorry I missed your earlier text. I didn't see the alert until just a few minutes ago" - not sure if this is pursuing, but didn't help the cause. I didn't want her to think I was ignoring her

Her: "Its no prob..."

Me: "K - just wanted to make sure it wasn't something important" - pursuing??

Her: "No i was just worried it was going to b hard to sleep for both of us"

Me: "Recently I haven't needed much sleep lately. Not sure why..."

Then my phone died. It took about 5 minutes to reboot (SOS lockup), but there were no more text - not sure if I missed any or if they would still have came through after the phone restarted. Any idea?

Oh well, I do have to go to bed. I have to get up in 5 hours

[MrBond]

This whole conversation above is pursuing. It seems you know that, but you keep doing it. Oh well, live and learn. You're going to be a really nice guy all the way to the end.

Again...let go and don't engage her.

As for the other stuff, being compassionate is seeing her side of things and understanding them. You're going to have to bend when it comes to the kids' time. Split them 50/50 so that you will have a chance to GAL and work on the quality time together when you do see her.

You've got to bend a little to get alot. With you saying "this is what I want and that's final" you're showing her you're a jerk or are only ostracizing her choices.

"She danced around a bit, but didn't say flat out she wanted to go to save our marriage, but was going just to make sure she wasn't making a wrong decision."

Did she say that? That she wanted to be sure she wasn't make a wrong decision? If not, then the counseling is all yours and she shouldn't go until she's ready to contribute.

[confusedinpa]

Stuck808,

I didn't present it as this is what I want and that's final. I just presented it as the most recent thing I have been able to come up with. I worked in the fairness speech of how she's been thinking about this for a while and I've had a much shorter time to think about it. It would only be fair if I was given the same amount of time. So isn't that what's she's trying to do, is be fair?

She actually said that she was going to "work on herself" to understand why she feels the way she does. She mostly listens and asks questions during the sessions - that's her way, she's not a verbal thinker (at least not with me), which has been the problem over the years. She says that she's doing that to make sure she wasn't making a wrong decision - i.e. she filed for divorce on Jan 9th and can't find a reason to change her mind because she still feels hurt/neglected everytime she sees me.

Hence this is why I think she has this high flight urge. This is why she jumped at moving as soon as she thought I would be able to afford the house without her there (which is what she had been asking for months). In retrospec, I could have kept her in the house longer, by letting her go through the sale process (which would have taken at least 6 months). I don't think this would have helped as much since she would have felt trapped the entire time and how could she possibly consider working on the relationship while she is feeling that way. Who knows, once again, I'm second guessing the past, when I can't change it.

In retrospec, I see how the conversation turned pursuing. She initiated it and I should have just stopped at "No, I'm not sleeping" and left it at that. Instead, I got worried she thought I was ignoring her because she thought I was mad.

It actually came up this morning that she thought I was ignoring her because I was mad.

She had woken me up to get ready for work after she took her shower. We walked by each other - I thought she just sighed or groaned. I got into the bathroom and closed the door slightly. She then poked her head in and said "Did you not say good morning back on purpose?"

Me: "No, I didn't hear you say good morning. I thought you sighed"

She: "Oh, I thought you were mad and did it on purpose"

Me: This is where I make the mistake "No, I'm not mad". I guess I should have said, how do you expect me to feel, you want a divorce. Not sure why I didn't say it, perhaps I should have, any thoughts?

Our counselor has said that's been part of our problem, we've been so worried about making each other mad during our relationship, we walked on eggshells around each other during most of our relationship. This resulted in a very weak relationship with little/no connection. My wife says since there is so little to build on, there is no point in trying again. I disagree, as we have kids, which is the biggest point. She said she had been trying for years because of the kids. Problem was, she knew I wasn't trying since I didn't see an issue. Now the problem is that we both see the issue, but she's tired of trying.

Odd part of the morning is after that dialog, I saw her in the kitchen and we joked around like everything was fine again.

Oh well, the separation is the last chance for her to find a way to try again.

[confusedinpa]

Day continues with the text message barrages.

I begining to note a trend where she feels I may be angry/upset, she becomes overly friendly. As I've been really busy this morning (I was out sick the last 2 days of last week), I was very slow in getting back to her (about an hour).

It started with her first text about her nose bleeds and asking how I was.

Then I got a second one saying her mom would pick up our oldest son and asking me to confirm I got the text

I responded 35 minutes later: Thanks for letting me know I don't need to pick him up and I was sorry to hear about her nose bleed.

She then thanked me for confirming

Then I told her that I've been busy in meetings

Then she asked about an easter egg hunt this weekend

I text her that the 2 boys should go

Then she text ok

Then she text how busy she was at work

A lot of nonsense. I'm tempted not to reply at all but I've been trying to keep it very cordial and polite. Not overly the top, but at least that I was not just ignoring her (like she had felt I was in the past).

On top of that, I get a call from my insurance agent to confirm the changes my wife made for our car insurance.

Now we still have counseling tonite. I'm really torn on what to talk about.

I'm thinking about talking about what she said about counseling last nite - she's going to make sure she's not making the wrong decision. Other piece of it is to take the compassionate route and start the talk with how I understand how she's still hurting and feels trapped right now. Right now I get the sense she is starting to feel some relief from escaping the trapped feeling. Then ask if we could talk about her other feelings.

Any thoughts?

[confusedinpa]

I'm really annoyed and confused. Probably more annoyed than confused, but nethertheless, still confused

She keeps using the threat of ever reconciling and or counseling whenever we get into discussions on custody. Last nite I confronted her about my percieved threats, namely the couneling one. She gave a very ambiguous answer on why she is going. My take on it was that she could go to counseling by herself to work on herself (whatever that is), but said she was going with me to work on herself as she felt that I wanted her to go with me. I challenged that made no sense what so ever. She clarified then that she was going to make sure she wasn't making the wrong decision as the counseling is helping her understand things that had happened and things about herself.

She had also threatened that if I really relinquish custody so the kids don't have to move back and forth, that she thinks I should just sign the papers now (otherwise we wait 21 more months before its finalized). She thinks that just me visiting for "fun time" without taking any responsibilities is the old me that ignored/neglected her.

I'm mad that she keeps using the any possiblity of reconciliation whenever we argue. I know she is concerned when I'm mad - I think she's afraid of what I may do. I'm really at the point where I don't believe for a second that she is even giving any consideration that reconciliation is possible. I try to rationalize it as she is still hurting so she doesn't see a good relationship with me. So by her moving out, she could get some space to heal her hurt and hopefully realize all that she's giving up.

The skeptical part of me is that with her moving out, she will not see any of my changes and we will just continue to grow further apart (as if that's possible).

I know what's right for the kids is to have both parents involved. I am really struggling with them having to move back and forth and call 2 places home.

Hence I'm angry at the situation the four of us is in. I'm angry at myself for not getting it earlier. I'm angry at my wife for giving up. I'm angry at myself for failing my family.

I'm confused at what to do.

I know the answer is to do the best for the kids, but I don't know what that is. I just hate the 2 home scenario......

Anybody with some words?

[confusedinpa]

Anyone?

[volleydog]

I wish I had an answer for you. Been separated for 17 months and we are just starting to see each other regularly not the two of us but with kids. I think it's all about the detachment them knowing you're not just going to stop what you're doing and come running when they need something that you've got a life.

[confusedinpa]

She actually just text me again. Just some funny nonsense comment from work.

I swear she think's we will just be best friends after the divorce. I've already told her that I will be cordial and polite, but will not be able to be friends with the woman I love and not be able to show her.

The part I hadn't been prepared to handle is a separation. I did not think it would actually get to that point. I guess I should have been ready for that as she is moving out the weekeend of 4/17.

Many people say go Dark/Dim. Problem is I really don't know what that means.

My 180 had been to be attentive, caring, loving to make her feel like I think she is important. That was her complaint, she felt that I stopped making her feel I loved her as I ignored her and made her feel like an inconvienience. She doesn't believe the changes and the way I've been treating her these past 3 months. She thinks it's just an act or a script.

I'm afraid that Dark/dim will just reinforce that I have not changed. How do I balance that?

Or is by leaving, she really doesn't care?

I know I don't need her to be happy. I know I can and will be happy. I just want her in my life, but not the way she is behaving now.

This morning when I left, I didn't even try to give her a hug or kiss. She made a big point of calling my oldest son over before I left with him, to give him a hug and kiss. Oh well, whatever.

So, back to the question - how do I do Dark/Dim without abandoning my 180?