Over the Shock - Detaching and GALing

[stillloveshim]

Dreams are great things. Don't give them up for anything.

I agree, ask the MC and let the MC make that call. And don't be disappointed if the MC says not yet.

I think the thing that is so tough for us is to remember we are not the issue here, they are fighting themselves. Her silence might not be a bad thing.

Give me an example of things getting more tense and the bad energy.....?

[Thinker]

So I have to say what happened tonight because it was so weird...

First, I asked my IC (who is seeing both of us if we should start IC again, and he said "Not until you both want to go" but that it was "not good that you never talk about the R" and "we need to talk" and that (since he has been seeing her and therefore knows her as well) "it is going to be up to me to make that happen, because she is not going to take that step"

So I am thinking about that and promising myself that I am going to post here first and that tonight is going to be fun only and no R talk.

I got home from my IC session and the music was on in the house (Bob Marley) and the boys were running around and everything seemed fun so I started dancing around with the boys - great time....and then my wife came into the kitchen and turned off the music....

Now she was the one who turned it on so...

I asked why she had turned it off and she said "I didn't want it on" ... OK... WTH???

Then she announces that she has been looking at movie listings and that she would rather go to a movie than to the comedy club I had picked out. I replied that I had made plans and that she had agreed and I was still going to carry through with that and go do the Comedy club. She said OK but it was really a non-answer.

so then she went down into the playroom with the boys. I poured 2 glasses of wine and followed - gave one to her (she looked at it like it was poisoned) and drank one myself while playing with the boys. She sat there on the couch in the playroom and looked miserable.

The babysitter came and we went to the club (silence in the car the whole way except for some small talk I made). She made some derogatory comments about "the place looks like a dive..." We got there and she commented that she was surprised and pleased with the place and we ordered drinks. However, she looked completely miserable and was even crying a bit. Also she kept texting and receiving texts. I asked her if everything was OK and if she wanted to talk about anything and she said (almost sobbing) "No!". I asked her if we should start MC again since there was a lot of stress in our lives recently and we had a lot to talk about and she said "why do we need the C to talk?" I just agreed and let it go.

The comedy show came on and was GREAT!!! we laughed and laughed!

After the show she went to the bathroom and left her phone on the table. I couldn't help myself and was wondering who she was texting the whole time, so I snooped. It was a series of texts to a friend in which she said "I am here at a show with my H and just want to run away!"

After the show we talked to some of the actors and had a great few minutes, then agreed to come home to relieve the babysitter. As soon as we left it was uncomfortable again. We came into the house, sent the babysitter home and separated. She went to watch TV, but instead jumped on the phone. I headed upstairs to post here.

So I am confused and not sure how to react or what to understand....

She is miserable and worried about her mom. but when she is with me -- no pressure, lots of fun, no R talk, on a night that she agreed to -- she "just want's to run away"?

Sorry, I'm confused.

Time and Space...repeat! (or what?)

I really do feel relatively detached - I am not upset right now, just confused and sad. I was in a pretty good mood all night and am still pretty happy with the night and myself - just confused and sad with her reaction. It seems like no matter how I detach or work on myself, she just refuses to face any issues and just wants to run away. I almost feel like just asking -- are you leaving or staying. If you are leaving, then go! If not, then stop running!

Sorry, just ranting and venting because I am confused. I appreciate any light anyone can shed.

[Thinker]

BTW, the MC basically threw the question back at me -- "when the two of you both jointly decide that you are both ready for joint MC again, then we can start again"

So he said, if we were going to start again, then I had to ask, and we should only start again if she was completely willing.

[stillloveshim]

Alright, do you like your therapist? I sort of don't based on this.
My therapist, I love her. When I ask her a question, she doesn't give me gray answers. She'll answer me and say Take my advice or don't. But for your situation, this is what I'm suggesting.
I'm in therapy alone. H knows but wants nothing to do with it. He has said it's been good for me.

[stillloveshim]

Ok.
My opinion, for what it's worth......

First option: She really wants out. I don't really believe this option.

Second option: She is trying to pick fights with you to make it easier on her to justify leaving...."We were fighting ALL of the time...." But you've stopped her cold there. She turned off the music, you didn't bite. She gave you a WTH look when you did something nice with the glass of wine. You ignored it. Then she wants to change plans that you worked hard on and you said "do what you want....this is what I'm doing." And remember, she came with you.

Don't worry about looking at her phone. Do what you have to do, this is war. "I want to run away." That could mean one of two things, in my opinion again. A.) She literally wants to run away and get out of the marriage. B.) She is so confused because you have been so great lately she has no idea what to do and needs to be alone to figure it out because you're doing way too well in confusing her.
I believe option B.

Don't lay it on her yet, the ultimatium type questions: Do you want to stay or go? Give it some more time. I mean seriously, WTH else do you have to do right now?

Stay and fight.

[Thinker]

I actually interpret "I want to run away" in the present and physical sense -- ie she felt the strong urge to get up from the table and leave and get away from me and escape the whole situation.

Interesting that the friends response was along the lines of "Oh you poor dear!" and "I'm available tomorrow if you need to meet and cry" - very understanding and familiar with at least one version of our situation.

I think the reason she was looking for a movie was that she feared having to sit at a table or in a bar with me, because then she would have to interact with me, and that is exactly what she has been trying so hard not to do recently.

I keep really looking at it closely, and I don't think there is anything in our current interactions that is negative and that she could complain about (except the distance and lack of intimacy, which she is causing herself):

- I am a lot more present than I used to be (I used to focus on a lot of things other than the R). I am a happy person who takes care of myself and who has his own social life (I used to be grumpy and more dependent on her).
- I play with and interact with the kids a lot, and since I am working from home I do a lot of the child care myself (I used to work from an office, work long hours, and travel a lot, so was often not around).
- I do about half of the house work (all of the dishes, about half the laundry and half the decluttering. She does most of the cooking and shopping. A cleaning service does the grunt vacuuming, dusting, bathrooms, etc). I used to let her take care of the housework while I was working.
- I am in shape and taking care of myself physically.

In short, I think I have addressed all of the things she vocally complained about - and in reality, I have made the changes for myself and am pretty happy about it.

I do know, however that she is not happy with her life - was not before and is still not. She has been going to IC, but I don't think has been really working at it or addressing anything painful there - so is not really making any core changes. I get this impression from my discussions with the C we both use. He has made comments to me like "one of you has been really working hard at making changes"

To an extent, she may be more MLC than WAW. When we met, she was an optimistic graduate student out to save the world with 2 healthy parents, no responsibilities and no health concerns. Now she has not made any real career progress (has moved with me, and then was a SAHM), has 3 children and a house to take are of , her father has died and her mother is terminally ill, and she now has a strong family history of cancer that points right at her. I think emotionally she is still blaming me and our R for all of this and for her own resultant unhappiness.

But you are right - right now she can't find much to pin it on...

...but at the same time she does not want to deal with me in any way.


Time and Space. Time and Space. Time and Space.




I'm off for the evening and tomorrow at least - going to a 24hour men's retreat with my church. I am really looking forward to that as a chance to get away for myself.

[Thinker]

Just found the following posted by Sandi on LonelyRzr's thread.

Just wanted to point that out since I was an AWAW and the terrible mixed up feelings you have and try to find the reasons and don't know why and it is so easy to point your finger and say that it is all the H's fault.

Thanks Sandi! It helps!

[stillloveshim]

I hope you have a blast!
I think let it all go for while you are gone. Take the time to breath and not walk on one egg shell or maybe stomp on all of them!
At this point, you are doing everything you can be doing. And if you really get to a point where you want to point blank ask her "What's up? S**t or get off the pot..." that is up to you. Only you can make that call. But I understand you get to a point where you are ready to ask that question. BUT make sure you are ready if she says I want to leave.
But for now, forget all of that and enjoy your retreat.

[Thinker]

And if you really get to a point where you want to point blank ask her "What's up? S**t or get off the pot..." that is up to you. Only you can make that call. But I understand you get to a point where you are ready to ask that question. BUT make sure you are ready if she says I want to leave.

I'm not ready to ask that question yet.

It just seems to me like right now she is pulling farther and farther away and the R is getting progressively worse and worse and since she pathologically avoids any discussions or conflict with me and since I am not initiating any R discussions, I am just sitting here and watching the wall (of distance, issues and misunderstandings) between us get bigger and higher.

Somehow, if we are ever going to start making things better, we have to start talking. I am trying to figure out how start knocking the wall down.

It seems almost certain right now that if left to her own, my W will only keep building it higher. That's what my C was telling me - I am the only one working on things right now, so I am the only one who can start taking bricks off the wall.

[stillloveshim]

So what are you going to do to start removing bricks?