Look at the realationship your spouse has with your kids as compared to the your relationship with them. My daughter would pick me 9 out of 10 times.
That's a real problem in my sitch because my W has been going completely overboard to be the dominant parent, and although moth of my kids enjoy the time they spend with me, they depend on W because she has always been their primary caregiver, and has taken up the martyr role doing everything for them and with them.
Whenever I'm over for one of my nights with the kids, she has just left a few minutes before I get there, and S11 has a real hard time accepting that she has left.
Last night I talked with him and asked him why he gets so upset when his Mom leaves. He said "Because I don't want her to leave, but she does anyway". I said "That's because it's my night to spend with you guys?". He asked "Why does she have to leave just because you are here?". I said "Because she needs some time alone without me." He said "Yeah, but why does she have to leave us just because she doesn't want to be with you?" I said "I don't know, that's something you would have to ask her" He said "I did, she just said 'Too bad, that's just how it is'" I said "I know this is very difficult for you, it's difficult for all of us, but you realize that we both love you very much, and we both want to spend as much time with you as we can." He said "Doesn't she realize she's not just doing this to you, she's doing it to all of us"
Whoa... that one hit in me in the gut.
Me: "Well, it's her decision, and all we can do is make the best of it" S11: "Why did you even let her move out in the first place?"
Whoa... another reality shot
Me: "You know that was her decision and nothing I said or did got her to change her mind" S11: "You could have just told her she couldn't see us (kids) or we couldn't stay with her if she moved out" Me; "would you have wanted me to not let you see or stay with your Mom?" S11: "Well maybe she would have stayed"
WHOA... this kid has some real N.U.T.S.
At that point I turned the conversation to dinner, and he moped off to his room. 5 minutes later he came down and was back to being a carefree 11 year old, talking sports, homework, acting like a goofball and just being a kid.
I think: 1) He is so much like his mother in that he just suppresses his feelings, pushes thm down until they boil over. The difference is that he still has the innocence and spirit of a child, and can quickly switch gears. 2) Both me and W can learn a LOT from our kids and how they are processing this. I don't know what her interactions are like when she's with them, but I hope there are some times when she can see the damage that she is causing, and it helps to soften her heart.
Men cry. We all have if they haven't, they have and aren't telling you.
Continue doing what you are doing. It's one step at a time. Just...pick one thing to stop doing or one thing to do differently: -say I am NOT going to talk about my marriage this week with my W -or, next time W says something to me, I am NOT going to talk...just listen -or, plan your first outing with your kids...just you and the kids...or a weekend away with them; do everything..pack their bags, pack food for the trip, etc...and feel a sense of independence
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
song...be careful how you 'assign blame' to your W. Telling them about 'her choices' affixes blame to her. Be careful. FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
Thanks FIB - you keep me in line. I understand your point on blame, though it was explained to the kids from the very start that it was her choice to move out. I am very careful to never disparage W, and I tell the kids that I love her very much.
Song....you should be thinking about saying that too...love.
"If daddy loves mommy, why is he doing this...or that...etc." It may cause confusion. Choose words carefully.
Stay strong. Deep breath when it hurts.
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
I don't understand. I've always told my kids that I love them and I love their mom. That hasn't changed, and I would never want them to think I could stop loving them. I think it's important for them to know my love for my family (w included) is unconditional, even if Im not saying it to her.
I'm interested in why you don't think that is a good idea.
song....don't misinterpret what I said. You should always tell your kids that you love them. We know..YOU know..that you love your wife.
What I am saying is ...is that you need to now minimize the collateral damage to your children. Clearly, they were hurt the other day by having a dinner together with your W...when your W didn't want to be there.
Saying you 'love your wife' MAY confuse them. "Why is daddy and mommy doing this if they love each other?" "Daddy says he loves mommmy, but, why can't he stop this or why does he allow it to happen"?
You need to answer their questions clearly, concisely, without blame, without discussing the issues between you.
Think about how you present your feelings to them right now. If your W tells the kids she DOESN'T love you (she shouldn't say that of course) and you say you DO love her..then SHE gets fingered.
Just think. Express events and emotions in a way that you "hold onto your N.U.T.S"...strong..neutral....and in a way that the kids understand what is going on without maximizing the hurt. I would avoid talking about it unless they bring it up.
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. My computer crashed and we had all kinds of problems getting it up and running again, plus I have not felt very well and could not post very often. Anyway, I have just finished catching up on your stitch and see the hardship and heartache that you are going through with your S11 (mostly). Since he has some physiological problems (I hope I said that correctly), I would want to get an expert's advice. The Psychologist should be able to tell you how to deal with his moods and behavior and how to answer those tough questions.
I remember that with my son, he was closer to me than his dad for a long time, but it was mostly b/c his dad did not chose to spend quality time with him after he outgrew his baby stage. I was surprised b/c I thought my H would be the perfect father and delight in having a boy. It seem that our son reminded my H a lot of his younger brother who use to irritate the daylights out of him while they were growing up. He would make comments about how our son was so much like his uncle _____. He was hyper active but I just thought he was being a normal boy! Anyway, when he was 11 years old, as I recall, he did tend to be closer to me and I think it was b/c we were more on the same "keel" or wave link or like-personalities or whatever you want to call it. My H and our daughter, on the other hand, were more alike and have always been closer. I am no doctor, but I think around 11 is a hard time for sons b/c they are making that transition from being close to their mothers and feel like maybe they need to kind of pull back some to become more of a man? I don't know.....that is just some of Dr. Sandi's theory. But I do know that your S11 is having a terrible time with this stitch b/c it is "his" stitch as much as yours. I would even be leery about telling you how to go about disciplining him if he is seeing a psychologist. I know what I would do if he were my son and talked to me and disrespected me like your son has you! But, that is two different situations. I think on one hand he is very fragile and is having a detachment problem from his mother almost like a baby being weaned from his mother. Also, he is angry at you b/c he expects you to "force" her to stay in the family. He sees you as the head of the home (which is good) but he thinks if you can "make" the children obey you, then you should be able to make his mother obey you as well. He is desperate and afraid. His moods and anger is something that I would get expert advise about how to handle. I wished I could help you so much! I can only imagine how horrible it must be. But, I will say this much, Song. Please, please do not stop seeing your S11 "less" than you are at this time. I do not believe that is the answer. The less you see him, the more he will cling to his mother and HE WILL BE A MAMMA'S BOY! You do not want that and neither will his "future wife" want that (trust me). I think he already is on the verge of being a strong mamma's boy and he will probably end up choosing between the two of you b/c at his age, he thinks he has to do that b/c he does not know how to balance his feelings for both of you while you are living in different houses. So, he needs you desperately in his life to show him how to be a young man. Yes, that puts a lot of pressure on you, but God will help you b/c He wants your sons to become good men also. Both sons need to see their dad as human but also a strong man. I realize you don't have the answers to all their questions and I wouldn't either. I know I would have exploded just as you did that night your S11 acted so badly. It was wrong, but I would have reacted the same. I cannot tolerate a child being disrespectful to adults and using their "moods" or bad behavior to control the adults or situation around them. I even wondered at the time of that posting if S11 might be doing just that, but then I remembered that you had said something about his "development progress", so I backed off that idea. If his development is delayed or he is a little more immature that others his age, that could answer the problem with wanting to stay with his mother over wanting to be with you. But again, please don't see him less b/c of that. It will only make matters worse.
As far as the things your wife has said to you.....I said some of the very same things to my H when I was wanting to leave. She acts cold and won't talk and is mean to you b/c she is trying to get you to turn lose of her. She will continue to get meaner if you don't back off or as FIB has said.....turn her lose. Song, if you can just turn her over to God. If you can just put her in His hands and turn the entire stitch over to Him, then you will be able to find peace. Until then, you will continue to be miserable.
My prayers are with you, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
As far as the things your wife has said to you.....I said some of the very same things to my H when I was wanting to leave. She acts cold and won't talk and is mean to you b/c she is trying to get you to turn lose of her. She will continue to get meaner if you don't back off or as FIB has said.....turn her lose. Song, if you can just turn her over to God. If you can just put her in His hands and turn the entire stitch over to Him, then you will be able to find peace. Until then, you will continue to be miserable.
My H also was cold & very mean for a month as he was trying to get me to react and agree to a D. Little did he know I would not play the game back with him :-).
I like what Sandi said about turning your W over to God. I am still working on it as well... I have to turn my H over to God every day, as well as my M. There are times I feel I have turned him over completely and there are times I still struggle. But it has helped my emotional wellbeing so much! I feel so much freedom and peace when I have surrendered it all to Him.
Hope you're having a good week.
Me:28, first M H: 33, second M Married: 08/08 Bomb: 10/08 H filed D and deployed: 12/08 Served: 04/09 I deploy: 07/09 Hearing date: 08/09
Thank you (((Sandi)))) and (((FitChik))) for your perspective.
Sandi, I had thought you had given up on me because I am like so many of the men here and didn't seem to be following your advice. I am sorry to hear that you have been away because of your health, and I will pray for you.
FitChik, even though we've never met, I feel like you are my prayer partner, and I am so grateful for your encouragement and prayers. Now that I know your name, I'm able to pray for you and V**** by name, although God has always known.
I have been reading a lot here, but not posting because I'm trying not to get drawn in to the daily up-down cycle, but rather just working to stay the course, give it time, give her space, lovingly detach, and hand it over to God.
Since my S11 opened up to me last week about the hurt he is feeling and why I didn't "stop" W from moving out, we have been relating better. I'm doing as you suggest and being more fatherly with both sons, trying to set the example as the strong man, and just trying to make the most of every moment I spend with them.
I know I can't fight the tide, I just need to float... One day at a time, step by step, let go and let God. So simple, yet so difficult.
