I unfortunately tend to agree with you. In the previous two weeks she has told both my s6 and d11 on seperate occasions that we are divorcing. I was livid with her, we, as a couple should have sat both children down together and explained to them what was going on and not to blame them etc. I believe she has so little respect for me that she is now attempting to detach ME from our relationship as she has said she wants to be with the children alone. I think she is looking at the situation with rose tinted glasses as she blames me for her shouting at the children because she is so unhappy because of me and thinks her little world in the family home will so much better (I do not wish to sound sarcastic)when I am gone.
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
I unfortunately tend to agree with you. In the previous two weeks she has told both my s6 and d11 on seperate occasions that we are divorcing. I was livid with her, we, as a couple should have sat both children down together and explained to them what was going on and not to blame them etc. I believe she has so little respect for me that she is now attempting to detach ME from our relationship as she has said she wants to be with the children alone. I think she is looking at the situation with rose tinted glasses as she blames me for her shouting at the children because she is so unhappy because of me and thinks her little world in the family home will so much better (I do not wish to sound sarcastic)when I am gone.
Mark, I certainly hope you are documenting ALL of this in a journal, which you keep safe somewhere. That is unconscionable, and a family law judge is NOT going to look kindly upon such destructive behavior!
Nice to hear from you. With that great insight into WAW's, is it something that clears in their mind in time and I have to continue with GAL'ing, PMA etc until she sees more clearly, or do they shut out completely any positive aspects of a relationship? If she is involved in an EA then I have to let it run its course, but it does make recocilliation virtually impossible I feel.
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
Sometimes the fog does lift. Usually slowly, sometimes VERY slowly. It's rarely some big "Aha!"/epiphany moment when the clouds part and the angels shout, altho SOMETIMES that does happen.
If there is an EA, then ANY contact with the OM will re-set the withdrawal "clock" back to 0:00, which is why you either have to bust up affairs (separate the addict from the source of their addiction) or wait for them to fizzle out of their own accord.
Either way, the wayward mind and heart is, for the most part, shut off to the LBS and your attempts to meet their emotional needs, speak their love language(s), etc., will almost entirely not hit their mark when they're in this stage. They will NOTICE them, but they're not going to RESPOND to them at this point, nor will it "work."
No, it is not impossible -- lots of wayward and MLC spouses do come around and reconciliation happens. But it's a long haul, and it is with good reason why we call it "The Rollercoaster."
I do not know who she is right now, and as much as I do not want to move out, I think I can help my children gain some serenity and calmness when they are with me. I am a lapsed catholic and am seriously considering going back to church to try and exorcise my own demons and try to gain some serenity in my own life, though my only catholic church is the one I got married in! I may consider taking the children though I don't know whether they would come, or the reaction of my wife would be good. On the other hand, where and what I do with the children when I have them is nothing to do with her (obviously with the children in agreement)
I am very strong on values and have instilled this to my children politeness, good manners, strong handshake (I am very into this) when they practice hand-shaking with me. I am very disturbed in the way my wife seems to want to engage in arguments when they are in earshot, again I think as Saffie said so that I feel disarmed and vulvernable because I am more concerned about them
I want to do the best for them but do not want to be undermined by my wife. She is also trying to use her inheritance which has now been swallowed up by the credit crunch to tell me I should have signed a 'deed of consent' which basically means I would give back any monies she brought into the marriage. She thinks that because I will not give this money back, the children will suffer as she will not be able to give them the lifestyle she would want for them. Emotional blackmail, and I feel I am being beaten constantly without me really doing anything wrong.
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
I did not write what follows, but the questions being contemplated here reminded me of this post that I had saved as it SO accurately predicted things my wife said to me that it gave great credence to what the author, a "former" wayward spouse had to say... I've added emphasis to the passages I found to be particularly pertinent...
Quote:
Inside the Wayward Mind
What follows are the words of a woman who had an affair and subsequently examined the patterns (“scripts”) that wayward spouses follow…
On a personal note, I am a former wayward wife who came here on the brink of divorce. By reading the literature on this site coupled with the help of many of the forum members, I have finally begun the process of recovery with my husband. The following thread is my interpretation of the “workings of the wayward mind” to hopefully help you understand the new “monster” who currently inhabits the body of your once beloved spouse. Once you understand your wayward spouse and the way he/she thinks right now, you can then begin your PLAN to hopefully recover your marriage.
Wayward Fog Babble (things ALL waywards seem to say):
1. I love you but I’m not in love with you 2. I have been unhappy in this marriage for a long time 3. The kids will be fine if we get a divorce as long as we remain friends (for their sake) 4. I just don’t feel that way about you anymore 5. The OP (other person) has nothing to do with the way I feel about you now 6. You are a wonderful person, we just aren’t meant to be together 7. I am just confused, this has nothing to do with you 8. I am doing the best I can…I just can’t decide what I want 9. I need some time/space to sort all of this out 10. I need some time/space to find myself 11. I am so tired of feeling this way! 12. Can’t you just accept that it is over? 13. Why are you being nice to me when I do not deserve it? 14. You have never been there for me 15. I am going to file for divorce, I just don’t have the money/time/strength, etc right now 16. I am not going to change the way I feel, why don’t you move out and file for divorce 17. The children will learn to love the OP like I do 18. I can’t help myself 19. Nothing you do will ever make me love you “that way” again 20. My happiness has to be my number one priority 21. I will DEFINITELY divorce you if you expose to anyone or confront the OP 22. You never listened to me BEFORE now; quit acting like you hear me NOW!
And on and on… The justifications of a wayward spouse can be mind-boggling! Wayward “fog babble” can be EXTREMELY convincing, though, especially to the betrayed spouse. The reason for this is because the wayward spouse ABSOLUTELY believes what they are saying at the time. The betrayed spouse has to keep in mind, though, that the justifications are so great for a wayward spouse because it is a defense mechanism to WARD OFF the feelings of guilt and shame that they SHOULD feel. Guilt and shame KILL the fantasies of a wayward spouse, and are replaced with unfounded excuses.
Assertions range from the utterly ridiculous, to the ones that are a complete re-write of history, to the ones that are interlaced with TRUTH about the state of the marriage pre-affair. Example: “You never listened to me (noticed me, etc.) before the affair, why should I believe you’ll listen to me now?” This cuts deep as you realize that the communication (or intimacy, etc) WAS lacking in the marriage pre-affair.
Wayward spouses re-write history…I used to say to my husband “There was no romance or passion between us throughout our WHOLE marriage.” Obviously this is/was fog babble. It felt true to me then because I had allowed another man to enter my life and fill my emotional needs to the point that I felt I was in love with him and that he was my “soul mate.” This statement/belief obviously hurt my betrayed husband very deeply. But as soon as I removed the other man and got through the fog, I realized of course, that not only was it an untrue assessment, but that those feelings could be recaptured.
The distorted and hopefully TEMPORARY "logic" of the wayward... In an attempt to divert the guilt and shame, and avoid all the hard work that a wayward intrinsically knows they will be faced with upon accepting the reality of what they have done, they look at the person they are married to as a scapegoat. They re-write history from before the affair and convince themselves (mostly subconsciously, although some do it consciously) that the marriage was doomed from either the beginning, or the subsequent years following their wedding day. This is actually easy to do, because ALL marriages have their problems. Everyone has flaws, and the wayward focuses on the faults of the betrayed to justify the way they are currently feeling and for the affair itself.
The other aspect is the other person. The wayward sees them as their "soul mate" and tells themselves that "everyone deserves to be happy." Therefore, no matter how wrong they know the affair is deep down inside, they go with the new age vibe that you must "follow your feelings." They see divorce all around them and convince themselves that it is the norm. They see other children who have been through a divorce and say "They are doing just fine," even though those children probably are NOT doing just fine. (Except in the cases where the married home was abusive or otherwise unsafe, etc. In those cases, anyone is better off getting themselves and their children away from an abuser, and with counseling the children may end up OK.)
The wayward can convince themselves of this due to the fact that they are observing from a distance. They do not actively seek to dig deeper and discover that the children of divorce, especially ones with infidelity as a cause, have an extremely difficult time with anxiety, guilt (why weren't we enough), and understanding right from wrong if they are not told the truth about the divorce. They internalize their pain most of the time, so it is difficult to see what they are going through. The wayward truly believes that "if the children know they are loved by both parents, and my betrayed spouse and I get along for the children's sake, they will be just fine." To dig deeper for the truth about the affect of divorce on children would be to vaporize their fantasy world in a very big way.
It is a very scary state of mind for everyone involved. Anything the betrayed spouse does to try to convince the wayward that what they are doing is wrong is met with hostility and the attitude that the betrayed spouse is trying to "punish" them for their wrongdoings.
Unfortunately, for most wayward spouses, THAT is the state of existence they remain in, even if the marriage is salvaged to the point of somewhat peaceful co-existence. It is then the feeling of the wayward that "I have done everything I can...I have stopped the affair, I have said I am sorry a thousand times, I have placated you with flowers and cards, and now you just need to be a strong enough person to get over it!" If the betrayed spouse does not buy into this theory then there is an extended period of time where the wayward spouse and betrayed spouse go round and round in circles, with the betrayed spouse knowing they deserve more than to be placated, and the WS viewing any attempt at real recovery (talking about the affair in full detail, living their lives as an open book, etc.) as punishment or as their betrayed spouse being insecure or needy. Until the wayward spouse fully realizes the extent of their damage and faces their greatest moment of selfishness and devastation to their marriage partner, this will be the continued state of existence.
If and when the wayward spouse finally comes to the place where they can humble themselves and seek guidance as to the extent of their damage, and change their perspective about the affair and the marriage, they can expect a period of depression. It is truly devastating to honestly realize what I have done (switching to first person to speak from experience). The betrayed spouse can actually benefit from this, because it offers a time of re-building the love they have for each other. The betrayed spouse can finally SEE and ACTUALIZE the remorse of the wayward and seek to comfort them, even as they heal themselves. Once this epiphany is achieved, the wayward will be willing and eager to learn all they can of how to comfort their betrayed spouse and therefore learn and grow together. They can re-connect on a deeply emotional level, fill each other's emotional needs joyfully and thus create a loving environment where true romantic love can blossom.
An affair is never a "good" thing in a marriage, obviously, but it can be a huge turning point where the couple can grow and be even deeper in love with each other having weathered the storm of the affair. They will both realize that everyone makes mistakes, but it is not our mistakes that define us, it is how we cope and make amends for those mistakes that truly make us who we are. The couple then feels pride in the fact that they have recovered successfully from one of the most heart-wrenching travesties known to man.
**********
After I confessed and got through withdrawal, and had maintained no contact for months, I STILL wanted to be single. It is part of the defense...always easier to run, than to face the music, be humble, ask for forgiveness and BEHAVE like a husband or wife. Much easier to say "It's over between me and the other person, but I still want to be single...I will never re-capture those feelings with you...you will never trust me again...you will throw this is my face for the rest of my life...etc." Those are all excuses to absolve them of the guilt and shame.
New: What a Weekend
H-48 WAW-49 M-22 S-14,9 D-11 EA disc.-11/07 PA disc.-3/08 EA2?-6/08 to ?
I may consider taking the children though I don't know whether they would come, or the reaction of my wife would be good.
. . .
She is also trying to use her inheritance which has now been swallowed up by the credit crunch to tell me I should have signed a 'deed of consent' which basically means I would give back any monies she brought into the marriage. She thinks that because I will not give this money back, the children will suffer as she will not be able to give them the lifestyle she would want for them. Emotional blackmail, and I feel I am being beaten constantly without me really doing anything wrong.
Mark, if you haven't already done so, it's time to forever jettison the standard of "What will my WIFE think? What will she SAY? And how will her reaction make ME feel?" from your Life decision-making process, and forever replace it with:
What is the RIGHT THING TO DO in this situation? What would God Himself have me do if He were standing right here in front of me?
It's not easy, esp. for "Nice Guys" like us, but it IS possible to pretty quickly re-train yourself, and ... once you do it? IT'S DAMNED LIBERATING, and you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.
That post is incredible as I have identified 11 of the Wayward Fog Babble without even trying to look! What an insight into the workings of a WAW, and as has been said before on many posts, this could have been written for me. In 3.5 months I have not been able to find one grain of proof to supplement my gut feeling of OP/EA. I sort of wish I could as Puppy has said to me before it would alot of the reasons WHY she is behaving like this.
I do feel better with the fantatic posts you have all sent me today so far. I feel I am in a slightly better place than I was this morning, and came assimilate what is going on. Your posts are telling me I should not be too hard on myself in trying to repair the most devasting thing that has happened to me in my life. I have validated the "reasons" she states but I am starting to not beat myself up over it. I only ever wanted a chance to repair the damage but she will not engage in any C whatsoever. I want to walk away from this knowing I have tried everything I can to reconcile, but if I can't I will make sure 100% my children will be ok. I just worry about them so much, and yet paradoxically my wife, who is a fantastic mother seems to becoming a tad selfish, (which is ALWAYS labelled at me). I am also labelled a liar constantly, though I think the more she says it the more she can justify lying to me when I ask her if there is someone else.
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
Be honest: do you think it would HELP you or just HURT YOU FURTHER if you found out she was having an affair?
Would it be a dealbreaker for you?
She very well may not be -- I'm pulling this number out of thin air, just based on my experience, but I'd say that about 15-20% of the situations that present these symptoms do NOT involve infidelity, and your wife could very well be one of them. There are also situations where it has been CONTEMPLATED, and the guilt of it and the sheer amount of time the thought of it has been dwelt upon by the unhappy spouse can make them ACT as if they are already deeply involved in at least an EA.
It could be unrequited.
Think Saddam and his WMDs. WE thought he had him, the UN though the had them, our ALLIES thought he had them, and he even ACTED like he had them. Why he would allow everyone to think he had them, ultimately to his own demise and death, is still perplexing.
I can see the analogy. I will just take each situation as it comes and try to block out negative thoughts and try and stay in the present. I guess it would hurt me further as a reconcilliation would be that much harder, though according to Michelle if 90% of affairs fizzle out after 6 months then it would not be a dealbreaker and maybe a chance to reconcile . On the other hand if she is not involved and wishes to have a period of calmness with herself and the children, and then move on when ready for another relationship, this would be even harder to reconcile I would think. Michelle puts this down as a diehard type who decides enough is enough, my wife also falls into this category.
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
