I see that differently. I see him saying that he has not felt important in your life. Like he was relegated to the backstage while you focused on other things.
I take it that you may not have seen it that way though. You may not have had thoughts like, "I'm going to focus on something other than husband - that'll show him where he stands."
I take it that he resents your focus on the kids because he wants your time. Your attention. He wants to be made to feel important to you. He may not and does not even know that himself.
Don't ask me why I can say that, please.
I think he really just wanted your kids out because he felt like they came between you two. Like he was an outsider in his own home.
Suggestion? You have very little to lose at this point. I can tell you that men who want a divorce would rarely say anything about it being in the future. They tend to show up with the papers in their hands when you least expect it. Consider making him feel important. I know that may not be what he wants right now, but try it. Try asking him why he wants the kids gone? Why is that important to him? Perhaps you didn't see why it was important to him (you assumed you knew) before and you wouldn't want to make that mistake in your next relationship, right?
I think he really wants to feel like he's an important part of your life. A priority. His way of feeling that way is what you are trying to discover.
Remember that it's never too late to reset. You both have baggage, but it may be time to find out what his perspective is. From him. I know you think the same thing because you keep asking about men's perspective.
My thoughts. My prayers are with you Kassie. It's not over. You have to believe.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
I do know that he suffers from a lot of guilt for many choices in his life and that slants his viewpoint quite a bit. Hasn't quite figured out that he gets to have some control in his life when he takes responsibility.
Silva,
I love how protective you are of me. I need that in my life right now. My feelings? a long time ago I saw this pattern where people usually either go in one direction or the other. I decided then I wasn't comfortable with either and developed a third one - I found I can survive any feeling or sitch if I remember to look at it through loving eyes - I just think to myself," love would respond in what way to this sitch" and I find my answer. That is why I choose not to respond. I knew if I tried we would argue and lose perspective. I know he will call again - and I am considering my response. I know I can't give him what he wants right now - its not about me. He will have to figure that one out in IC.
Thanks! for responding. First, you are right to pick up on his feeling unimportant to me and our life - he's wrong and misguided on that one because of his problems. Since I have met him, my life has been consumed by him because he demands that constant attention. He does not feel good about himself because he has made a lot of bad choices which I think he regrets and can't take back.
Living with me and the kids reminds him of those bad choices. I really do see his side of things from his perspective as I have listened to it for years - problem is he has never listened to my perspective or my kids' perspective.
I only ask for the male perspective in case I am missing something like - does he really want a D? why he is waffling for so long - why can't he make his mind up? He has asked for a D since we M. I think he regrets the M. Where does that leave him? me? the M? in limbo until things go his way? Like that will ever happen? is he waiting for someone else to come along?
Living with me and the kids reminds him of those bad choices. I really do see his side of things from his perspective as I have listened to it for years - problem is he has never listened to my perspective or my kids' perspective.
Well put. This also goes for my situation as well. Because of the A and the snowball of he** that brings looking at your face only reminds him of the person he was when he was drinking. So for them the answer is giving up and starting over again...but in reality that is just starting the same cycle somewhere else.
Me: 46 FWS: 36 Married and Divorced 4/07, Pregnant 7/07,False R 7/07 Baby Girl born 3/08 Kicked him out because OW: 7/08 5/10 He realized what he had and lost. Moved home! REMARRIED 3/14/11!!
Thanks! for responding. First, you are right to pick up on his feeling unimportant to me and our life - he's wrong and misguided on that one because of his problems.
Can we just say that you "feel" he's wrong on that and leave it at that? You don't "know" why, although you have an opinion certainly. You feel like you made him important. He feels like you didn't as much as he'd like. At some point, you did make him feel that important. It's why he can't easily walk away like he has with others. What changed?
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Since I have met him, my life has been consumed by him because he demands that constant attention.
Consumed? Really? I think you two need some counseling, but my guess is that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Something like: you treated him differently. He felt you loved and respected him. He did something and you began to get comfortable and focus on other things (seems normal to me; life is what it is.) He took that wrong and began doing childish things to get your attention. You pulled away further thinking he needed his space and that he wasn't being fair to you and treating you well. The cycle continued.
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He does not feel good about himself because he has made a lot of bad choices which I think he regrets and can't take back.
He has issues. He does. But do you "know" this or are you inferring it? That's important because if you act like that's the case, you are going to get that response. If you're right, you're not helping. If you're wrong, you're not helping. It would help to ask questions at times that are appropriate.
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Living with me and the kids reminds him of those bad choices. I really do see his side of things from his perspective as I have listened to it for years - problem is he has never listened to my perspective or my kids' perspective.
Me me me. Enough about you, what about me? That's what I'm reading in that. That's not unconditional love. That's conditional. That may be because you're tired and your tank is empty. I can relate. Believe me.
Do you know he never listened to your persepective? Do you know that the kids remind of those choices and that it bothers him for that? Or could it be that he doesn't see it the same way you do? i.e. he doesn't come to the same conclusion as you and therefore must not have listened? We all do that.
I think the kids just remind him he doesn't have your undivided attention. They don't even remind him, they represent that undivided attention. I think he is needy and insecure. Not because he wants to be, but because he is. I think you may be as well. We all are to some degree.
When you drop him and run for the latest issue with the kids, what message does that send? I'm guessing that's happened and you never gave it a second thought and he didn't say anything at the time. He buried the feeling - alive. His way of dealing with it is to try to get you to kick the kids out. That's not going to work either if you ask me. The reality is somewhere in the middle. I suspect he loves you and craves your attention so much, that not getting it makes him crazy jealous. He doesn't know how to handle those emotions and you see what happens.
Him talking about D is not the same as him giving you the papers. He doesn't want that, but he may not know any other way.
I'm not sure what to do about that information Kassie. I wish I did. I think you just need to know that side of things. The rest will come to you.
You do realize I care about you, right? I really do want to see you be happily married. I do. I put out my opinion for the above with that in mind. Please take it that way and know that I won't be offended if you don't agree. I don't know your situtaion as well as you do. I don't know you or him as well you do. I do see those things as possibilities in your relationship. I do hope it helps even if some of it hurts to hear.
Humbly, AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
I appreciate your ability to verbalize some views to help see things in a different way. Some of your questions come up because you haven't been around for all of my stitch and there's much you don't know. I can't hold that against you - I asked you to jump in without much information. Superficially you have good points and you have taken a big risk because I asked you - so I know you care.
A few points to clarify - yes I do know for a fact that he has issues which is why he has been in and out of therapy most of his life. Secondly, he has been an active alcoholic most of his life and only tried to stop since we have been together. I don't want to go into other details about his life here - because I don't really wish to dishonor him publicly.
Having said this, I wanted to bring people up to date. This a.m. he approached me at work again - angry and wanting to talk. I asked politely if he could wait til the evening and I would call him. He stormed out and practically threw his ring.
I don't know how I stayed calm. Tonight he called me first, he sounded very different. He told me several things: 1) he was ashamed of his behavior today and apologized, 2) he wants to work on getting back together,3) he wanted me to know how important I am to him, 4) he wants the chance to show me that he can treat me much better than he has, 5) he is asking to build a friendship and asks for only spending "some" time together occassionally, 6) he knows it will take time to change his behavior but he is getting help from three sources now. He was calm, polite, listened, and asked vs demanded everything. He even allowed room for input. When I gave him positive feedback for his efforts, he heard me! He felt good about it! and he thanked me for not giving up on him.
I am cautious, but these have been the gradual changes I have noted in some of our exchanges in the past month despite the negative behaviors still being there. He expressed a huge awareness of his negative behaviors and how much he dislikes them and understands why I don't like them either.
So, I think baby steps have occurred on his part. I finally heard some things that I have been waiting to hear for a long time. Thanks to exhaustive support I have had here, I did not quit and may be seeing a corner turned.
Silva, I send you more thanks just to get to this point. Regardless of where this goes or not - I realized today that I am OK and it has a lot to do with your support and protectiveness. You have seen parts of me that I forget are there sometimes. You have pushed me to expect more. Reminded me of my strengths. Mostly you just plain cared and gave me some of your precious time and thoughts.(not to mention many laughs)Li
SO2, I couldn't be at this point without you, because you remind me so much of how I feel - it stinks some of the time - but you still care. It forced me to find the middle ground, to find the place where love and sensibility intersect. Struggling with you and your stitch, pushes me to consider my feelings, the options I have, and to make decisions I can live with.
(((Kass)))..Thank you. I too find alot of perspective in your words too. I think its because we have a little different twist in our sich's than most on here. The A throws it all into a different place and without permanent recovery for the addiction there is no way a M will work regardless of any other changes we or our H's make.
You are doing so well and it sounds like he really maybe turning a corner. He is going to meetings and I am sure doing the hard work of self discovery without the alcohol fog. Thats huge in itself.
Last edited by Startingover2; 03/26/0903:20 AM.
Me: 46 FWS: 36 Married and Divorced 4/07, Pregnant 7/07,False R 7/07 Baby Girl born 3/08 Kicked him out because OW: 7/08 5/10 He realized what he had and lost. Moved home! REMARRIED 3/14/11!!
Good to hear! I'm glad you're seeing some change and I can only hope for the best for you and your family. I hope he realizes the hurt you've experienced and is able to stick to you like you deserve (and like you stuck with him) during this process.
Be patient. I'm sure that there will be many ups and downs coming but may your ups outnumber your downs every hour. Regardless of anything else in your life that may come at you.
I truly mean that. I wish you nothing but happiness and I look forward to hearing the progress.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Well, I don't think my reply to you, AJ, would be appropriate, so I will leave it as read. Your last post says it all....care
Kass, Thank you for your kind words. I am happy to help in whatever way I can.
As for the latest...nothing more than I expected, the angry outburst then the remorse later. What I am pleased about though is the fact that friendship was mentioned. That is, in my opinion, the only way to turn this whole thing around. Back to basics. No expectations, no pressures, just a wholesome respect.
If you can get to that place together, which is down to you as much as him Kass, then it is a great place to start from. As ever though, there is no rush and 'acquaintances' will be just fine for now to allow for the detaching to continue. You are both VERY vulnerable right now and need to protect yourselves from each other.
There is something positive lurking there though, I can feel it in my bones :)....just be careful, don't go reaching out, stay within your walls a little longer.
