OMG Thinker!! Thank you!! Thank you for sharing that with me!! Not that I'm happy you shared my exact same pain, but because share my pain with me. It sucked to read that crap. I have no idea when it was written but it could have been around Christmas time which he said it was and pointed out to me "W, you even said we were in a different place in December." And we were, but that only makes the crap I read a little bit easier to deal with. Today I got another one and I should have just let it go, but this one seemed to be more recent, like in the last month, after the burglary. That one REALLY sucked to read. We got into a fight and he said again something like "The marriage can't be saved." I spoke with my therapist about it. She said "You have to let him know you are grateful for the apology." She agreed whole heartedly with AJ that was a BIG BIG deal. So I called him and apologized. He was sort of blah with me, which really really set off my last nerve, but I held it together and said bye. Later, after I tennis, (I lost my doubles match ) I went to get S from our place where H is living alone. And I walked in told S to say bye bye asked where his shoes were and grabbed him and left. I said Bye and he said Bye with a sort of WTF? tone to it. Then of course, S says he wants an "icee" which is that frozen sugar water. So I went back in and got it, H was in the living room, asking "Why are you mad?" I said "I'm not, I have to get S home to bed, it's after 9." Again "Why are you mad?" Again, "I'm not." "Did you win?" "No." "Why are you mad?" "Again, I'm not, but I do want to get him home and take a shower and I want to go to bed too." "Well, OK, I don't need 3 phone calls tonight." "You won't be getting them from me." And I left and again, he said "Bye" with the WTF? tone. So I thought I did well there. I really wasn't mad, I just wanted in and out. I want to detach. And I feel good that he was concerned I was mad. That's a good thing, isn't it? Tomorrow, there is no reason for us to see or speak to each other. So I'm going dark for the day. I have S tomorrow. H has him on Wednesday again. Then I have S Thursday and H takes him this weekend starting at 6:30. He said something about going to see his parents this weekend because he has his fantasy baseball draft and that's hours long and done online. I did nothing to offer to help watch S. He thinks he wants the Big D.....he needs to see what S is like for 48 hours. To this day, and this is my fault, H has never had S for 24 hours alone, more over an entire weekend. I constantly jump in and help. NO more. H has son for this weekend and next because he had a golf tournament last weekend, so I decided to be nice and just take him and therefore giving H two weekends in a row with S. We'll see how it goes. If H doesn't go out of town, I might, so I can't buckle. I need to detach because I need to turn my brain off. I don't want to think anymore right now. And here's something: What do I do if he wants to ML? He often does. And frankly, I miss it too. We've never had a problem there. My therapist says do it, keep him close. But I'm torn.
Alright. So it may have started off as a mistake, but I needed one answer post all these stupid emails. Today I asked H if he wanted to be with this girl. And before he could start to answer I said "Don't get your panties in a wade of spin into a tizzy. I just want to know and you can be honest because that will start a new chapter in our lives where we only have a son between us and nothing else. I'll step way back out of your life and the only connection will be S and the house hold bills. If you want to be with her, let me know." He says "Ok, why are you asking this now, this morning?" I said "Because my gut tells me you two were talking again starting bright and early Monday morning. I think you want to get back into her good graces. I think that you may still want to be with her." He said "No. There was a time when I did. There was a time when I was pursuing her, as you call it. Today, I do not. And for the record, I'm not trying to get back into her good graces, she's trying to play nice with me. And honestly W, she and I have to work together in close proximity. So we do need to get along. And that's really all I'm concerned with. I don't want to feel awkward some place I spend 8 hours a day in." I said OK and he added "When this was all happening, you and I were in a different place and we (me and H) both had different feeling about each other. No, W, I'm not pursuing anyone, this is all done and over for me. I'm not even sure I want to be friends with her." So, I said wonderful, thanks for answering that for me. Then I told him my plans for the evening if he wanted to see S he's going to have to work around my schedule, which I didn't say in so many words, but I want to be able to let him and S see each other whenever possible. I don't want to ever be accused of not allowing them to see each other. This is all so confusing.
He's trying to figure out how to deal with the elephant in the room. The one he brought, but thinks you forced him to bring. You did to some degree although his choices are his own. He wants to know how to come back but not to what was.
It is a good thing that he cares about you being possibly mad.
Something that has happend to me in this process - as the WAS changes, so do I. It's like a dance. It'll make you crazy if you let it. Detaching is designed to help with that.
ML? I have to agree with your therapist. If it's there, take it. That level of intimacy is not something you can do with somebody you hate. I don't care who you are. You can have some of it with somebody you don't really care about, but not hate or want to be away from. It's intimate by nature. It's ok because he's your husband. Don't have expectations that it will magically change your husband. Live in that moment. It's a good sign of a healthy relationship and in your case I think it shows that your relationship is on a good track.
You need to work on you. Take the time to do that. Enjoy the moments. Stop trying to fight all the time. Calm down and delay those fights to the next day if you can. No matter how much it hurts to bite your tongue. You'll be glad you did. I can see if from your writing.
Your sanity? Yes. Get your sanity back. If you can see H 2x a week and stay away from the constant chat, then do so. If you can constantly chat without fighting then do so.
I'll leave you with this: he doesn't want to have a relationship with ex-OW. He's told you that and he means it. He has to work with that person and he realizes what a dumb thing it was to even come close to having a relationship with somebody he works with. He's trying to be professional. It was dumb. Ok.
Build a bridge and get over it because it is getting in the way of your marriage. Fix yourself and realize he didn't do anything more than what he told you. He even apologized which is HUGE in this realm. HUGE HUGE HUGE and shows he really does want a way back. Just not to the old you.
Stay focused. Stay calm. Get over the ex-OW because there's nothing there. She's nuts and its over even though there really was nothing there. He looked and she didn't measure up to you. You really are that much more desirable. Way more. A back-handed compliment really.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
I hate the confusion we go through. But I think you did great when picking up S. And I think your H was being honest with you about OW. Good job on changing the email address. Does he know you changed it b/c you are serious about no contact from ex OW?
M:28 H:30 DD-9| DD-7| Baby- Due 11/10 T-14 | M-8
10/08- Bomb 4/09- Failed attempt at Marriage Fitness Program 3/10- WH moved out. 7/10- Informed me he's filing in Aug
One more thing, if you continue to bicker, he's going to think you haven't changed so why "try" why bother,he's probably thinking if you reconcile he'll just come back to what he wanted so badly to get away from. I bet when you met you were a strong, secure, confident woman. Some how over the yrs we tend to lose that, and that's a Huge turn off for a man.
You have to seriously DB, do 180's not just detach and go dark, but do 180's. Whatever he expects the old you to do, do the complete opposite. If you usually complain about anything, bite your tongue. Now is not the time to try and fix "relationship" problems b/c you're not in a "relationship".
We all have a million questions, but if we start asking away it pushes them away. We have to be strong and fight it. Live in the moment as Aj said. If you keep living in the past you miss the present and ruin the future. For the moment Let it go. I know it's hard, but if you in fact want to reach a reconciliation it's something you have to do. And didn't you and I both agree a few wks ago...No More Questions? I remember that..... (((Hugs))) Stay strong, remember Patience!!!
M:28 H:30 DD-9| DD-7| Baby- Due 11/10 T-14 | M-8
10/08- Bomb 4/09- Failed attempt at Marriage Fitness Program 3/10- WH moved out. 7/10- Informed me he's filing in Aug
Here's another possible issue...one where I may have showed too much hand....I was in the shower Saturday night and H came over and my Divorce Remedy was on the side table with my bottle of tea on top of it. He has to be oblivious to not have seen it. I'm pretty sure he did. He didn't say anything though, but I feel like that gives him the upper hand here. He's always known he can go out there and screw around and I'm still going to take him back. Probably not good.
I hope he cares. It just amazes me that he can go a whole day and not call me. He does it all of the time. He calls or texts on the weekends, but not so much on the weekdays. It makes me crazy. But that's something I can let go, it just dampens my spirits.
But you are right. I need to let it go. I need to stay calm and collected and my head in the game.
I'm glad you agree with the ML. We've never had a problem there and I hope it reminds him of good things.
Divorce Remedy can mean anything, not necessarily to fix a marriage it can mean it's a remedy to get through a divorce in one piece, how to split the assets, custody things like that. So he doesn't necessarily know u you want to fix things. Tjhat's exactly why you have to GAL and do 180's so he can assume you're not waiting for him to say take me back. he has to think he has to work to get you back.
M:28 H:30 DD-9| DD-7| Baby- Due 11/10 T-14 | M-8
10/08- Bomb 4/09- Failed attempt at Marriage Fitness Program 3/10- WH moved out. 7/10- Informed me he's filing in Aug
Let's get something on the table. The ML thing? That's not just for him, now is it? It's for you as well. It's something you do because you want to, not because it will make him feel good. Ok? It has the side benefit of acting as a way to connect the two of you in an intimate way, but if you are only there to try and trap him, it will come through. It would be better not to if that's the case. Just relax. Enjoy the moment because if the script is to be followed, he'll get scared afterwards and lash out at you (say mean things). The funny thing is, you won't know the moment he is going to deviate from the script. He may also decide that you're what he wants and that you've changed enough for him to come back. The reality is likely to be somewhere in between. You can bank on the moment though, so enjoy it.
The book? Ok, let's assume he saw it. He still comes around, right? He still shows signs of caring. He may not have given the book a second thought. He's a guy; he may not have noticed the scarlet letter on the nightstand that was pulsing with sirens at you.
Give it a rest. He cares. The sooner you get that through your head and start looking for changes in yourself the sooner the relationship can change. Here's my thought: Right now, you miss the old relationship. You're mourning. Give yourself permission to grieve, but stop analyzing him like you understand. You don't. But if you take a step back and look at yourself - a good look at yourself, you'll see that you have a few things to work on. He'll give you that time to work on you. He wants you to work on you. He wants you.
Be sure to lovingly detach and don't go completely dark. What I mean is, don't be vindictive. You're detaching to get your sanity in check, to gain your perspective. Not so you can "show" him anything. Detaching is about you. The sooner you get that, the better.
If you love somebody you don't try to hurt them right? You wouldn't hurt your son, would you? Why? Because you love him. Same applies. You can unconditionally love your husband. You want to in this case.
Taking the space he's offering is a good idea at this point. Lashing out at him for your hurt is not. It shows that you have more work to do.
He cannot hurt you but you can hurt you. Please know that. Please reflect on that. Ask me more if you don't see that.
Your problem is that you care too much, but your crime is how you showed it. Your salvation is to find the real you and to show it to the world - that has the benefit for both of you and at some point you'll thank him for the opportunity to show the real you (sounds crazy, but think about it).
You didn't grow up dreaming of marrying prince charming so you could nag him out of the castle, right? You don't want to make the man you love miserable any more than you want to be miserable.
Go work on you. Relax and know that he really does care. He's gone WAY further than anyone else would do in that situation but he's not ready to go back to the way things were. Can't blame him can you? Would you want to be committed to you given the way things were? It'll take time to change and to show that change to him. Relax and know that he really does care and is watching you with hyper-vigilence.
He gets confused when you do 180's so be careful. Use them scientifically. Try one. See what happens. Ask yourself: Do you like it? Does he react in a way that is consistent with your goals? If not to either of those, change and repeat the cycle. If so, keep it and try another.
BTW, I'd love to talk with you from time to time, but I don't think this board is cool with that. I think they prefer we not contact directly. I'm sure there's a good reason for that. I've mentioned before I'm on facebook, but it's harder now that you cannot see my last name. We'll have to leave that for another time, Ok? Know that you have a friend here in NC who thinks your marriage is salvageable but needs some work. That thinks one day you'll look back and regard this as a rough spot in your life. One that allowed you to grow and become the best person you always dreamed you could be.
You are worth it and you are that good. Stay in the game and work on you. Be the change you want to see; others may follow.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
It sucked to read that crap. I have no idea when it was written but it could have been around Christmas time which he said it was and pointed out to me "W, you even said we were in a different place in December." And we were, but that only makes the crap I read a little bit easier to deal with. 
) I went to get S from our place where H is living alone. And I walked in told S to say bye bye asked where his shoes were and grabbed him and left. I said Bye and he said Bye with a sort of WTF? tone to it. Then of course, S says he wants an "icee" which is that frozen sugar water. So I went back in and got it, H was in the living room, asking "Why are you mad?" I said "I'm not, I have to get S home to bed, it's after 9." Again "Why are you mad?" Again, "I'm not." "Did you win?" "No." "Why are you mad?" "Again, I'm not, but I do want to get him home and take a shower and I want to go to bed too." "Well, OK, I don't need 3 phone calls tonight." "You won't be getting them from me." And I left and again, he said "Bye" with the WTF? tone. 