Not trying to be harsh or anything, but just how many "no-no's" are you trying to break in a single conversation???
Let's see, you tipped your legal hand, disparaged OM, threatened your wife legally, and insulted your wife by basically telling her she's an idiot for falling for this guy.
I'm glad it made you feel better tho.
Puppy
Yeah I know. Probably saved myself $$$ in the long-run, because I figure the negotiations would have been fruitless anyway. They'd have argued back and forth for 2 hours and we'd have walked away still set up to fight.
Just dumb.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
The D will take care of itself one way or the other. My primary focus is on D(1) at the moment. While W is involved in the A, and is acting belligerent and attempting to trash me to anyone who will listen - I'm keeping my eye on the ball and making sure I walk away with what I want as far as my D(1). I could care less about $, or anything else regarding the D. Since I have evidence on her A, there isn't really anything they can do except hope the judge believes her on the Abuse allegations, which seems less and less likely considering that they have no real evidence, just a documented liar to put on the stand.
So how do I feel about my M? I do care about my W, I think she is in a bad place mentally, I hope she straightens out her life and is happy, and I'm willing to listen if she wants to come back. I just don't see it as very likely at the moment considering she is not focused on anything outside of OM which makes it very easy to fight her on the D. The bad news - since she is so controlling/manipulative/etc. she has family bankrolling her to fight me because they all believe what she has told them.
I figure the truth will come out on wash day... not sure what a big exposure would do other than create hurt feelings on all sides. Her family would probably blame me for the A anyway. I'm not through collecting/building evidence. W has been very helpful in documenting lots of things for me.
I think the biggest thing she resents is the loss of control over me - and the only real control she has left is D(1) and she is doing things to manipulate me there. That won't last, and when it is over she'll realize I've severed outside of that connection.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
Yeah I have nothing further to say to her about it. That being said - negotiations would have been fruitless, because she doesn't want to give up any control of D(1). Also - I've got strong evidence (old and new) that makes a psychological evaluation likely. The A in this case is probably a symptom of some deep-rooted psychological issues she has had for a long time.
Self-cutting, suicidal thoughts, all sorts of things she chronicled before she met me tied around the deaths of friends and family - sex, lack of inhibition, hatred towards people who cared about her.
Her father died late last year, and now I'm seeing the same behavior I read about in her journal. The last time we ML she had a long cut across her stomach that she didn't have a clear answer for. I haven't seen her forearms since January. Even when it was 70 degrees the other day - she was wearing long black sleeves.
I've got serious concerns about her mental stability, not just the A. I could care less about the A - just a symptom of the bigger problem.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
I think if you can get it documented that she's cutting herself, you'll have a pretty good case that you should be primary custodian, and maybe she should have limited time with D1 until she can get help. There comes a time when you consider potential long-term impact on the marriage as a much lower priority than caring for your child and protecting your future. If she wants to flush her life down the tubes, I don't think you should join her. Sounds like you have your priorities straight to me.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
W wrote a journal from 1 year before she met me, through our entire courtship up until the time we were married. Before she met me she was in an intense amount of personal pain, wishing for death, going from relationship to relationship, and basically allowing herself to be used sexually. It all tied around to people close to her dying and she hated her family.
After she met me she mellowed out a ton. She basically worshipped the ground I walked on, her family saw her stabilize and fell in love with me, and basically we had 4 years of bliss and a baby.
After the baby, her father dying, then A, now D, she is going through the same exact self-destructive cycle she was going through prior to meeting me.
But I seem to be the only one looking at the possibility of a mental disorder such as Borderline Personality, her family just sees it as her going back to her old self. She hid a lot of the 'crazy' from me, but I got to see little bits and pieces prior to her dropping the bomb. Now, looking back in hindsight there was a pattern of behavior that should have clued me in had I known what to look for.
Basically, it is good that I've had the foresight to record/document each interaction, and to make sure that she can't say further lies, at least where our interactions are concerned. She has taken the "He is controlling" card to her family, and her grandmother jumped in on it saying I'm just a "control freak" which is why the D is happening.
I'm taking the high road and not getting into that squabble, because ultimately I'm not trying to win a popularity contest with her family - I'm trying to win the correct custody with my D1.
Despite all of it, I do love W, and I am hopeful she does get the help she needs. I'm just not sure how LRT/GAL/Distancing is working, because sometimes she will increase contact, other times she seems to enjoy the separation. Being a 'love addict' like Borderlines tend to be, I am almost tempted to try pursuing, but she has already attempted to 'punish' me for trying back in January so I had knocked it off.
I guess what I can try doing is being nice, cut out my 'common sense' talks that she says make her feel stupid, and just being as nonjudgmental as possible.
Emotions are starting to get the better of me in some respects, so I'll probably need to re-evaluate.
Right now my priority list:
1. D1 2. W getting help 3. M
I can't even think about the M until 2 happens.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
Hi DCBHM, been out of touch for a while, but hopefully I'm back. I've been trying to catch up on your stitch. You said the emotions were about to get the best of you and I think that is why your W and her family is "working" on you by being nice and telling you that you can see the baby whenever you want, etc. They are trying to break you down so you won't go through with all the evidence you have against your W. But, if it were me, I would forget everything and focus on getting primary custody of the child. I agree that your wife needs a lot of help and I wonder if you aren't feeling more pity for her right now than being in love with her. But at any rate, I do hope that the Judge will do the right thing for the child.
Take care of yourself, Sandi2
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hi DCBHM, been out of touch for a while, but hopefully I'm back. I've been trying to catch up on your stitch. You said the emotions were about to get the best of you and I think that is why your W and her family is "working" on you by being nice and telling you that you can see the baby whenever you want, etc. They are trying to break you down so you won't go through with all the evidence you have against your W. But, if it were me, I would forget everything and focus on getting primary custody of the child. I agree that your wife needs a lot of help and I wonder if you aren't feeling more pity for her right now than being in love with her. But at any rate, I do hope that the Judge will do the right thing for the child.
Take care of yourself, Sandi2
Yeah I've already made clear to my attorney to go ahead and fight. W is in a place mentally where she is going to fight me on every issue, and I've just got to be as proactive as possible on going on offense.
I'm still trying to resolve my feelings. My Bible verse for today was this:
You were united to your wife by the Lord. In God's wise plan, when you married, the two of you became one person in his sight. ~Malachi 2:15
I was deeply in love with W... but she has been doing her darndest to be as vindictive and spiteful as possible towards me. And I do have a lot of pity towards her now, and I'm just trying to shake off the issue and focus on D1.
Basically I have to do as you suggest and forget her, treat her as an adversary, and get D1 into a place I know she'll be taken care of and not put into situations which aren't good for her.
I'm a nurturing person, and I've raised my two boys from the ages of 1 and 2, and met W when they were 2/3. We married when they were 5/6. I know how to be a parent. 99% of fathers, especially in my age group don't have the same leg to stand on in a legal case, so should make this interesting.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
I guess what I can try doing is being nice, cut out my 'common sense' talks that she says make her feel stupid, and just being as nonjudgmental as possible.
Emotions are starting to get the better of me in some respects, so I'll probably need to re-evaluate.
Yes, that's all good. Cut out the common sense talks and I wouldn't pursuit. I think some of the limiting contact or going dark or dim is to help with the emotions. Instead you GAL, focus on yourself and your kids. Maybe your W has mental problems, maybe she's just young (she was about 18 or so when you married?). I know at 22 I was a LOT different than I am now 20+ years later. I would just focus on you and your kids though as being the most important. Take the high road and I do think you will always feel good about that in retrospect. Karen
Yes, that's all good. Cut out the common sense talks and I wouldn't pursuit. I think some of the limiting contact or going dark or dim is to help with the emotions. Instead you GAL, focus on yourself and your kids. Maybe your W has mental problems, maybe she's just young (she was about 18 or so when you married?). I know at 22 I was a LOT different than I am now 20+ years later. I would just focus on you and your kids though as being the most important. Take the high road and I do think you will always feel good about that in retrospect. Karen
She was 19 when we married. There seems to be a lot more to it than being young (although that is part of it probably) because just flipping out like she has with random nonsense doesn't seem to be just a young issue.
She is lying (and badly) about lots of things. I asked to take D1 to visit my family and the next thing I know I'm hearing I "threatened to steal the baby." I asked her directly on the phone (recording it) and she denied saying that.
I ask her to go to counseling, she flatly denies and says she doesn't want to. Then she tells her family that she is the one who wants to go and I'm not wanting to go.
I ask her why she is calling me abusive, and she accused me of trying to drown her. I asked what the heck she was talking about and get told that I yelled one time when she was taking a bath.
I tell her I'm concerned about her lack of emotional display since her father died (she used to cry at the drop of a hat, haven't seen her cry since that day) and she said that I 'made' her stop showing emotion because I wanted sex from her when her father was sick.
She told me she feels like she has wasted five years of her life "taking care of kids that aren't hers" and has shown hardly any emotion towards my sons since this started.
She has used D1 to control me, and has withheld visitation if I've refused to go along with what she wanted. Before I dropped all my evidence on her attorney, she was saying things like "You can't see her unless my attorney says you can." and things like that.
Prior to the A, she was always sweet, charming, and nice and supportive emotionally to everyone. Now she is a vindictive snake, deceiving everyone she supposedly loves just to continue her A. Her mom is blowing through retirement savings she will need to live on just to support W's D, and when it all comes out that she has been messing around I'm sure that will make things awkward.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
