New to the community

[ChiTown]

Thanks for the feedback. That is exactly what I chose to do. I talked to her and let her know that I would take a pass, and did not want to "ruin her day". I told the kids that I was going to work on a house project that has been hanging over my head. My oldest cried when they left and said he really wanted me to go. I told him that I would next time and that we just need to get our bathroom finished. It broke my heart. But hopefully she will see that the only reason I decided not to go was for her.

[DownNotOut...yet]

OK, I give you a B+ for that exchange. Handled pretty well but how could you hope she won't think the only reason you decided not to go was for her when you tell her specifically you weren't going because "you didn't want to ruin her day"?

Still, not bad, she got some space, you honored her request. Slightly cooler would have been to just say you have the bathroom project to compete and left it that.

Depending on how it went down, the "I didn't want to ruin your day" comment to her could be perceived as antagonistic, or weak, or even pursueing in a "see I did exactly what you asked and I am now pointing it out sort of way".

All and all though, good move, handled pretty well on your part. Good luck. Don't over excited or go flying her way, if she comes home in a better mood and wants to talk about the day today. Keep calm, pleasant and chalk it up to one small victory. Good luck.

[sandi2]

Hi, I will join in with the others in welcoming you to our community here. I was almost a WAW, but I never left my H for the man I met over the Internet....thank God! But, I was really messed up for a time and I can tell you a little bit of what it feels like from the WAW side.

Not to discourage you, but to prepare you in case this OM thing doesn't pan out with "him".....it does not mean that she won't immediately go "looking" for somebody else. She may not, and I certainly hope she won't....but she could. The reason I say that is b/c I found out from my own experience that there was something that was......shall I say....."stirred up" inside of me that caused me to feel excited about the whole thing. It is disgusting for me to try to talk about it now, but if it will help somebody else, then I'll do it. When I came on board here, I was involved in a EA and others here tried to tell me how certain chemicals were flooding my brain and that I was addicted to them. I did not believe it b/c I had never heard of it, so I went on line to read about it. They were correct! I also experienced the withdrawal when I broke it off with OM. But, it is the "feelings" that she will crave and if this old flame doesn't work out, she could go looking for another man that will give her those "in love" feelings and excitment again. It is very strong and when people do not understand what is happening to them, they are very vulnerable. I shudder to think what I would have done if I had been a lot younger than what I was at the time I went through it. I did learn a lot from the people here and I want to encourage you to stick with the board and be very open and honest about everything. Nothing that I know of has not been discussed, so there is not anything to be embarrassed about.

I have a list of Do's and Don'ts for people who are trying to stay in the home and make the M work, if you would like a copy. It has been passed around a lot, so you may have already seen it.

Remember to keep posting and reach out to others on their threads b/c it will help build up your suppost system.

Take care of yourself. I'll be back soon.

Sandi2

[ChiTown]

I guess I could have been more clear. She said "it will ruin my day" when she found out that I was of course planning on going. I told her I would think about it. I told her yesterday that I would take a pass and work on some projects at home. She said, "thank you". I said "your welcome". That is how the exchange went.

[ChiTown]

Thanks. I am not sure if I replied to this correctly, if not set me straight. I would appreciate the list if you would. I am not holding too much hope that it won't work out with the OM, but would like to do everything that I can for my children and to hold my head up.

[sandi2]

It is long, but don't let that bother you. Just do the best you can. It is only a quick guide to the DB rules. You can glance over it each day quicker than reading the book every day.....(lol).

DO’S AND DON’TS FOR THE LBS:

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self-confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what your emotions are TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. (Use balance here and don’t act like a fool trying to show “happiness”) This can confuse some of them (which is actually good) b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as being fake or appling pressure.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only. Don't try to get your spouse to do the same.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what
you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems or temptations easily arise.
37. NEVER LIE! When getting a life or trying to be mysterious...not lie in order to do be able to do it. You can be somewhat vague about what your plans are by not revealing all the details, but never even resemble lying to your spouse! Lying is not Dbing, so if you cannot carry out GAL on a particular time schedule without lying about what you are doing, then keep the trust and don’t lie to your spouse.
38. Do not keep company with the opposite sex. Do not turn to old friends of the opposite sex to talk to about your problems or just to hang out with them. This is not getting a life! This is not acceptable for a MR in trouble and could lead to you getting involved in an EA. If you cannot have your spouse present while you are with the friend of the opposite sex…..then you do not need to be with that friend. That includes any type of regular calls, emails, TM’s, etc., with friends of the opposite sex without the spouse present. You may not understand the seriousness, but it would be like pouring gasoline on a fire.
39. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.


Hope this will help you.

Sandi2

[Thinker]

Hi ChiTown,

Welcome to "the Party".

Your sitch seems pretty familiar to a lot of us - me included.

I also got a lot of the same surprise announcements - married the wrong person, our M has never been good, etc. - and then snooped and found an OM with whom my W was seriously trying to start a new R.

It is really hard, but know that you can't compete directly with the OM - your W is infatuated with the fantasy of life with him (mine sure was / is) and a fantasy is PERFECT.

I am now in the same place as you (and SoTireda) - but maybe a bit further along. I think the EA is over, but my W is not over it, and we are working out how to live in the same house. The good thing is that my W has stopped talking about D. The bad thing is that she has basically stopped talking. What I am trying to say is that things get better, but it is not quick and it is not easy.

What everyone is say here is absolutely true - focus on yourself. So easy to say, but so hard to do. I have found that the more I focus on my W - what is she doing? what is she thinking? are things getting better? etc - the worse things get. Find out what it is going to take to make you strong, happy and independent -- and do it!

Good luck and keep posting - I'll keep following along.

[ChiTown]

Thanks. I will take all this in and do everything that I can. I have a question with regard to disagreeing and the positive outlook.

My wife is really pushing to see a divorce lawyer that she met with last week. She wants to try agree to as much as possible and keep it out of court except for the filing. I explained that since this has been only 6 weeks for me, I am trying to process everything and wasn't in a place to meet with the attorney. We are in a bit of a fix financially and I have used this to (stall the process), explaining that we have a lot of work to do to get revenue flowing and her business in the black before we can take on additional housing expense. Her position has always been to try to stay in the house with the kids and have me move to an apartment as soon as we can afford it. I have since decided to stay and not do anything to help move things along too quickly. She doesn't know this, just thinks I am either emotionally in denial (her words) or waiting for the money. How do I talk to her about this without causing anger and arguments? If I tell her "I am not there yet, but am trying and once I 'play catch up' I am sure that we can make our arrangements without dragging things out in court. I think she sees this as weak and in denial. Yet if I agree to meet with the attorney, she is going to leave with a stack of forms and will start filling them out immediately. I have spoken to my own attorney and know that if she files I can contest and drag it out a year +, but then that shows I am confrontational. I do not want to disclose my intentions, and keep it from being discussed. She is desparate to get this going, because she is in conflict morally with her actions. She is a pretty ethical person, and I think it is killing her to be in this situation. She would feel like she could justify it if she had filed or I had moved out. I noticed on some recent computer searches that she was looking at apartments, she did not mention it to me, so I am assuming she is looking for herself.

[ChiTown]

Thanks for the info and support. I will keep plugging along and keep the faith.

[sandi2]

Chi, Puppy Dog Tails can help you with "responses" to your wife better than anyone I know. Mostly, you tell her that you are not ready to make that move yet(re: divorce, lawyer, etc.). You don't get into a R talk. Avoid it as much as you can. You don't "have" to say something just b/c she asks you a question. I know, it sounds rude, but believe me.....I have lived with a man for many years that did not have to answer my questions or make any replies at all, so she won't die.....it may make her angry, but she won't drop dead without a response if you don't know what to say. Put off everything and keep both of you in the same house as long as you can. Do nothing to enable her moving out. That means not helping her look for a place to stay or helping her pack or helping her move and get set up. Do none of that. Some men think it is being very inconsiderate and do it anyway, but if you are against her moving out, why help her? If she insists and goes on and moves out anyway, then she needs to realize that she doesn't have you there as her handyman to move the heavy stuff or to fix her light switches or plumbing in her new place. There is a time to be friend-ly and a time for tough love.

I do want to warn you that even if the A ends, her feelings will have to go through "stages"......even grief, which will be hard for you to see her go through and to deal with it on a personal level. But, it is really the chemicals that she is withdrawing from......not real love, so realize that this is not going to be something that is going to take a few weeks and she will be over it. She is NOT going to snap out of it! So many men ask that question......"when will she snap out of it?" She won't. It takes a lot of time....even if she stays, it takes a lot of time.

There have been very few things that have "shocked" anyone out of it. The principle of "Dropping the Rope" that Michelle talks about in her book probably works better at shocking anyone into realizing what they are losing, than anything I have read about. But, if you go that route.....you better be darn sure that you are prepared to follow through with a D or whatever she may decide to do. This is a route you take for your life....not a gimmick to get her back.

She will be on an emotional roller coaster and she will pull you into the ride also unless you stay focused on yourself and get your attention off of her. Otherwise, you will worry about every thing she does or doesn't do, and you will obsess over every word she says and every look she has. Her every mood will decide your day for you. Your life will be centered and based upon what mood she is in or what she wants or does or says. Don't allow that to happen or you will become a slave to that situation. Decide what you want for yourself and then go about your life enjoying it in spite of what she does or says or doesn't. That will have more of an impact on her than anything.

Most LBS are afraid to pull back or lovingly detach from their spouse b/c they are afraid of "losing" them. But I can tell you as a AWAW that she does not want you up close and personal! She wants away from you and she wants space......and lots of it. The more you make yourself unavailable and attractive and interesting......the better for her to realize what she has and will want you again. Learn how to act sexy again instead of acting like a "married man". If you don't know what I mean by that, then think of what you were like with her before you M her. I am not talking about acting like you are not M around other women......I mean around your wife. All of us seem to change after M. We let down and start taking one another for granted and just don't try as hard. Well, start working on getting back what you use to be before you M. You do that without chasing and pursuing her. Play a little hard to get and don't act so "interested" in her activities or being around her as much. But, when you are near by, act as if you are the most fun person in the world to be with. You may not "feel" like it, but you can pretend that you are enjoying the heck out of whatever you are involved in at the moment. Just don't over-kill b/c women are very perceptive and can spot a "fake" a mile away......especially if it is their H.

Talk to you later.

Sandi