B - I see where you are going, and I used to have the same thoughts about Mrs. C and how Cinco could probably get out his compass and figure out the rocky terrain, looking for the green meadows that might lay ahead...
But finally after all this time, I have the suspicion that Mrs. Cinco just isn't going to open that door up for Cinco. Even if there is a vixen hiding in there somewhere, she either resents Cinco so much for past wrong deeds, or she is clinging so hard to her life as a non-sexual person for her own reasons, that unless she declares for herself that she is going to go after her OWN sexuality....then I think there isn't anything else Cinco can do.
I think Mrs. Cinco's sexuality is really deeply hidden within her for her own reasons, and that she feels she is just fine the way she is. She resents Cinco asking her to change. She is happy how she is. She knows Cinco is unhappy, and that makes her unhappy and edgy about her marriage....but she herself is just fine and happy being an non-sexual person.
Therefore, in a case like this, how can you ask someone who is happy with the way they are to change?
I have said all along that it will take nothing short of an ultimatum for Mrs. Cinco to truly understand that Cinco has one foot out the door. If there was an ultimatum, then I think there is a chance Mrs. Cinco may CHOOSE for herself to revive her sexual side, so she can save her marriage, and then hopefully from there, she will like the changes in herself and choose to keep the changes because she wants them.
But even after an ultimatum, she might not make that choice.
Some people just are not sexual and are happy that way. I feel bad for Mrs. Cinco because it would seem that no one (on this board at least) understands her plight. She just wants to be left alone to do her thing and not be pressured to change how she is. I don't think she is holding back a conscious level of sexuality that she is withholding to punish Cinco. Instead, I think she just enjoys life without sex.
I have known many people like this over the years. There is nothing wrong with them. Their spouse may not be happy and it may cause divorces...but they are still happy with just the way they are.
I think Mrs. Bagheera has never been truly LD, but Mrs. Cinco truly is. Big difference. There is still hope for Mrs. Cinco to CHOOSE to find her desire...but so far, she has not made any attempt to choose it. So why keep pushing it on her? At this point, I think Cinco's best (and probably only) hope is to tell her he is about on his way out the door. At least then, she will know what the stakes are, and she can choose honestly if she wants to change or not. I know she loves him and wants to make him happy, but if that means changing herself into something she doesn't want to be, she will probably choose to let him go. I hope I'm wrong.
Bagheera - you are such a great friend to try to help Cinco. I feel horrible saying these things because it seems like I am not being supportive. But I've already said all the encouraging things and watched Cinco beat his head against the same wall all this time. It just makes me sad to watch it continue with no improvement. And I guess I can really relate to it in a way, because during my marriage, my ex-h was the one who wouldn't open up to passion, even though from the outside it looked like he was HD and I was LD....I finally FINALLY had to face the fact that just because he wanted sex, didn't mean he could ever really be with me in the way I needed him to. 5 years later and he is the same passion-less man....but he is HAPPY now. He doesn't have to face his unhappy wife everyday. He lives alone and can look in the mirror and think "all I have to do is make MYSELF happy", and that is what he always wanted. I just couldn't see it at the time we were married.
Anyway...Cinco...hopefully you feel good that so many of us want to help you, even with conflicting advice! We are here, hoping and praying for your sitch. I pray for Mrs. C all the time, too.
Is there another option that might be right for C? The agree with B about the elephant in the room and the lack of trust. I have had to acknowledge the pain I have caused for some things that I did before we were married and we have been married 13 years, and these were things I came clean about then. I can only imagine the bitterness Mrs. Cinco feels when Cinco pushes this issue and she is thinking in her mind about the past lies she has had to suck up. I can practically hear her teeth grinding and her muttering under her breath "and I'm the one that has to change! You son of a ..."
But I hear where you are coming from DQ on the "time to get off the fence moment" needed. I guess I think that it should be more like Cinco sitting down with Mrs. Cinco and saying that he loves her and is willing to do anything to bring happiness back into their marriage and that part of that requires he be totally honest about what he did and why, and reiterate that he wants to go to mc to get past this. And (here is where the off the fence part comes in) that being totally honest means that she will never be able to forgive him or that she doesn't want to at least work at it, then he will leave. At least he would know and you never know, they might be able to move past it. Either way there is progress.
As B said, I too am not a MC, but that is just my two cents after readign all the Cinco posts and thinking about him a lot.
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
I think we need a new abbreviation............ An ND spouse, which of course is a NO DRIVE spouse. I agree with Q in the respect that I think Mrs Cinco very much falls into that catagory. And what I have also learned, is that there is NOTHING wrong with them. I do believe I live with one. Hes happy as a clam as long as you don't ask for sex. Hell, he even LOVES it every so often ( yearly ) But is perfectly content to stay that way.
However, that's for you to figure out Cinco, and I'm thinking that while you read this, you already know. I think I have known, but didn't want to face it. Because then it left me with a HUGE decision. Because NOW what I have to decide is it worth all this to still end up with someone who does not desire like I do.
Diane, actually DQ and others have used that ND term before. I have been following your postings and I so sorry for you having to deal with ND in your spouse. I know you must feel so lonely in your decision about what to do next. ((( Diane ))) I still pray for you daily.
Many years ago in an argument with Mrs. Cinco over our lack of sex she said something like, "You want more Cinco and I want less, I'm just not that into it."
I answered with, "Well if you are wanting less then we can't go any lower than ZERO. You are asking to give up sex all together... which I won't do."
Recently Mrs. Cinco has told me she cannot give me what I am wanting: Passion, Affection, Desire and Intimacy. I am asking her to join me and explore herself in ways that she has no interest in doing. After all these years I still have no idea about how she prefers to be touched. She won't tell me. I think this is because she has no idea about what she likes or wants, she just doesn't think about it.
I have some idea about what works for her but not because she told me so, just in her reactions which are very subtle. There are times when I don't know if she has even reached an O. Indeed she could be faking sometimes, how would I know?
Until I have a job again I really can't have my foot out of the door, so any kind of an ultimatum is on hold for now. She is trying to meet my needs as she sees them. Until she sees desire as a two-way street it still won't be what I am truly seeking. I want something that she cannot give me.
Oh, Oops... never seen the ND abbreviation. lol Ah well...... Just something that popped into my head.
So, I was thinking of you 2 today, and I was wondering Cinco. Also, forgive me if you have answered this somewhere else, but I don't remember and I do follow your thread. But, otherwise, is she happy then?? Are you both ok otherwise?
I think it is very much like your sitch. If I am not pushing a SL on her she is pretty happy for the most part. We do interact very well and make great companions in a platonic sense. We enjoy talking with each other.
Have you ever seen a couple sit at a restaurant facing each other and yet not uttering hardly a word? We are the total opposite of that. We can still talk for hours about stuff and can find humor in just about anything. We do have fun together.
I do think that she has battled depression on and off over the years. I have tried to get her to talk about her feelings when she is down, she won't talk about it though. She also won't get professional help.
As DQ describes it...
Originally Posted By: DQ
I think Mrs. Cinco's sexuality is really deeply hidden within her for her own reasons, and that she feels she is just fine the way she is. She resents Cinco asking her to change. She is happy how she is. She knows Cinco is unhappy, and that makes her unhappy and edgy about her marriage....but she herself is just fine and happy being an non-sexual person.
... is very close to our sitch. She was perfectly content with a very low sex (no sex?) marriage. She has the companion that she likes, someone that is fun and she can converse with.
Cinco - "W, I want us to have connection. I don't feel my connection with you when we aren't ML.
Mrs. Cinco - "But we are close and connected. There is nothing wrong with our relationship."
This one conversation told me that she is getting everything that she wants out of our marriage. It is me that is unfulfilled without a SL. So I am pushing her out of her comfort zone.
Yes, that's us as well............... Try as I might sometimes; and I even get close at times, I will never fully understand them. I have tried to understand him/them by their point of view. We are asking them to do something they have no want for, that they don't crave or want or desire. But, at the end of the day I really don't think I will ever full understand how one doesn't not crave that passion, that physical closeness.
I had thought it was the same with you tow, but wasn't sure.
Seems were both at a stale mate and waiting.............. (( Cinco ))
Cinco, if you are sure your W does not know about your affair, DON'T tell her. If you do, it will be a huge betrayal to her and give her the best excuse yet not to have sex now or any time in the future. Plus you get to hear her tell you go to to someone else if you want it that bad, since you've done it before, etc, etc, etc, AND she will not tell you to leave. She gets financial support plus she gets to hit you over the head with it any time she needs to get at you for some reason.
If there is a chance she does know and hasn't mentioned it, let it lie.
It will not motivate her to try to satisfy you more nor will it make her feel guilty because she "drove you to it".
Hurting her to relieve your guilt will not be lost on her, or anyone else. Your guilt is your problem to deal with. Don't expect her forgiveness to absolve you. Not her job. You are able to forgive yourself if necesssary, right? Telling her would have the effect of rubbing her face in not being enough for you, not satisfying you. The relaxed abandon you want from her will never result from knowing you've been with someone else. She'll always be wondering how she compares to the OW.
I'm OK with your having an affair. Been there. Didn't like myself much, either. We do what we think we have to to survive. It is - well - sheer lunacy to think that telling your spouse will lead to anything positive. I didn't need to prove to my ex that I was attractive to other guys, he knew it. Proving it to myself wasn't worth much since the guy was obviously a cheater. I did get a signature on divorce papers without a fight, tho. It was my primary goal, but a poor choice of means.
If you must unburden yourself, talk to the clergyman at your church. We'd all forgive you but it's probably not what you want. Think on that a little. What you want. I feel bad for you that you're carrying the guilt. Does that help? Jayce
me: 66 H:60 2 adult sons 2 grandsons adult daughter deceased 5/05 me:Part time trainer H: plant suprv.
I have very much the same attitude as you do about it. I'm not proud of what I did, it was foolish, but I don't carry a burden of guilt over it either. I still feel it would do more harm than good to bring this out, so I haven't.
Besides her closing herself to me happened long before I got to the point of feeling so lonely I had an A. If I had never done that I'd still be stuck and lonesome. It was a catalyst to try to make my M work again and to look at myself and my part in the gridlock of our R.
Thanks for the understanding on this Jayce and I hope you are having a wonderful time in Mexico.
