How am I going to deliver you a mountain size of love? How'd the oceans connected by a straw get something through? I might need some time to remember Need some time to remember
Hey yeah, it's automatic when you know it Hey yeah, it's automatic when you feel it
When do I lie down Get to see the world inside your eyes? How can I reach out And hold on to the joy you've got inside?
Hey yeah, it's automatic when you know it Hey yeah, it's automatic when you feel it
Got some I want to feel it every hour 'Cause I want to get into you
Hey yeah, it's automatic when you know it Hey yeah, it's automatic when you feel it ------------------------------ Weezer - Automatic
In those first 5 years of bliss with Mrs. Cinco, it was automatic. There was no effort in our relationship; it felt right because it was right. We were right for each other, that's why we married. Then I don't know what happened to us. She began pushing me away when our daughter came into our life. I guess I allowed myself to be pushed aside.
I have been waiting all this time, many years, for the intimacy to return to our marriage. The "nice" part of me keeps me in a marriage that is no longer working normally. It's very hard to be intimate with someone that is pushing you away and has a barrier up, we both have barriers up really. My insecurities keep me here though, "If this woman doesn't want me, then why would any other woman want me either?" Those same insecurities also kept us apart.
I am working hard now to retrain myself to become confident and self-assured again. I was this way long ago but by seeking approval from my wife, my ego was wrecked when everything I did never seemed good enough and I let her down. Worse, I thought I could compensate for the things that became lacking in our marriage with things outside of it, by drinking, nights out with the boys and carousing. What was I thinking? Doing those things put even more distance between us.
Instead of an integrated whole man, I had become two. One was the bread winning husband/father, which to the outside looked normal. The second was the secret scoundrel addicted to sex, alcohol and porn. I was spiraling downward.
I want to be whole again and I think all along that is what W wanted too. Even if she didn't know quite how to put it into words, it is what our problem has been all along.
When I'm whole once again it will be automatic.
Here are links to all of my threads that I have posted here. The ever-growing link list:
So Cinco....can you tell us more specifically what this means? Are you saying you are going to work on becoming whole again, and then present yourself to her and see how the marriage may improve after that?
I am just curious because I love what you are saying, but I am wondering if you also have a plan? Not that you need one, but usually having one helps us stay on track.
I'm so glad, if for nothing else, that you have had this opportunity to grow and reflect. If you had left Mrs. Cinco last year when you came here and were so frustrated, you would have never forgiven yourself for it later, because you would have second guessed yourself for ever! I'm so very truly amazed how you have grown since then.
You are a great man and a great husband. I still pray every day that you and Mrs. Cinco will stay together forever....here's hoping.
I have been working on becoming whole again and I AM hoping that Mrs. Cinco will like the man I am finally trying to become. I wish for my transformation to be a good influence on our marriage more than anything. The ironic part of my journey is, while I was hoping for passion to return to my marriage, I discovered the reason that there was no passion is because I had lost my own passion for life and living.
I still have no way of knowing if Mrs. Cinco will respond to my changes and join me in my new passionate life. I do see small things in her that hint that she might... here's hoping as you say. My persistence in making our physical relationship important has made a big difference so far. Looking back on the last year, I can see how much better we are towards one another than the year before. We would go for weeks without touching at all before (except for maybe a side-by-side standing hug and a pat).
The plan now is to get help from others. Find a new direction for my career that really had gone stale (again no passion). I have always done things on my own thinking that I needed no outside help. I am reaching out for that help now.
I'm meeting with a career coach that I met through the church job networking group next week. Also I will make a call to the IC I found and get things started there as well. What can I say, a big problem of mine is procrastination.
The plan beyond getting my life back on track is to no longer accept passionless sex. My not drawing the line on this one years ago is what side tracked me to begin with. Ain't gonna let that happen again.
I am praying too that the end result is a solid marriage again. If that does not happen I did my best with no regrets.
The ironic part of my journey is, while I was hoping for passion to return to my marriage, I discovered the reason that there was no passion is because I had lost my own passion for life and living.
Absolutely Beautiful... this is the path *I* wanted you to take. For you and you alone. You can only change you. And you will be surely blessed if/when she follows. I will keep you in my prayers. Love, Ali
I was thinking about your situation on the way in to work this morning, and comparing it to my own.
In my own case, my wife was able to read the first chapter of The Sex-Starved Marriage and *finally* understand that it it hadn't been just her hurting in our relationship, that it had been BOTH of us, and she then vowed to work with me to repair our marriage, including seeking out professional counseling. That was in November of 2007, we began counseling in February of 2008, and it's been bumpy but steady progress ever since. As it turns out, my wife is NOT naturally LD, but has a brand of sexuality which is not 'politically correct' (from a "Nice Girl" or Feminist standpoint) and as such, she kept it well hidden from me (and often herself) for many years. We've worked hard to establish the level of trust and the environment where she can open herself up to exploring and enjoying her sexuality -- for the first time, really.
In your case, you've been posting here for several months (since 6/20/08), and while your wife has made a few steps in your direction, and seems to at least consider exploring and developing her own sexuality on occasion, she continues to back away from that particular precipace each time it looms in front of her. DQ has sometimes questioned whether or not there is an inate sexuality there for her to explore, but I tend to think that, yes, there is, based upon your history together, which you detailed here, and summed up in this statement from your very first post:
Originally Posted By: Cinco
The story of our M is like many of the others that I have read here. We had healthy and satisfying ML until our D was born. Then it was like a switch was thrown, "I'm a mom now, my wife days are over." She has never actually said this but her actions spoke louder than words.
Something was there previously, and seemed to have gone on beyond the first 1-2 wonderful years of the relationship, where even a naturally LD person can get caught up in the 'bonding euphoria.' As the relationship progressed, however, something changed, the Mommy-Shield went up, and now that your daughter is a teenager, it's the We're-Old-Shield. You've mentioned three issues which raise red flags, from what I remember:
(1) A long series of failed pregnancies and miscarriages, at least of which was life-threatening. Scary stuff, and whether you like it or not, it is linked to sex and sexual relations, particularly from a woman's perspective.
(2) Pain and discomfort during intercourse. This is partly due to changes in her body as she ages, and partly due to your penis size. Men may think that being well-endowed is The Shitz, and women may find it magnificent to look at and handle, but I've read (and know from a friend's situation with his wife) that penetration (of whatever oriface) frequently causes problems unless a lot of care, lubrication, and communication occurs.
(3) Your previous affairs --> which I believe continue to be the 'white elephant in the room' of your relationship, and that you BOTH steadfastly try to ignore. DanceQueen laid it out very clearly for you here: you won't be able to fix your relationship, or get your wife on board, until you are able to own up to your past, and live with integrity as a man. Only then, I think, will your wife have the courage to face her own suppressed sexuality and open up to you again (figuratively and literally).
You mentioned that in the early stages of your previous reconciliation, when your wife convinced YOU to seek counseling with HER:
Originally Posted By: Cinco
The counselor was baffled, she couldn't figure out why we were divorcing, we really weren't mean to each other and could talk to each other. Just fix the sex part and you're good. No one knew about the OW though and to this day she has remained a secret.
That counselor couldn't fix a facade, and yet that's what you continue to ask your wife to do now -- help you to fix a facade. I strongly suspect that your wife knew about the affairs, and to this day, continues to hold them, and your lack of honesty now, against you. My point is this: in order for your wife to ever explore her own sexuality again, and share that sexuality with you, it will take a complete change of heart on her part, a long effort, and professional counseling. And I suspect that the only way that change of heart will come about is if YOU come completely clean and show her the full, dirty, honest state of your relationship to date -- and then the two of you work to repair the actual building, not just the facade.
Keep in mind, however, that this is just Bagheera talking --? my opinion only. I have NO training and NO certifications in marriage counseling. I'm just some smart-ass who set out to repair his own marriage and read a bunch of books and did a lot of thinking about it along the way. You'll have to decide what the best course of action is for yourself: I'm just giving you some food for thought.
Take care,
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
B - Too many facades and shields between us and no one willing to tear them down to see what's inside. I have come so close to spilling the beans so many times and then my fears stop me.
I know that you all have hope for Mrs. Cinco to want to explore her sexuality. Talks I have had with her tell me there isn't much there to explore. I could be wrong but even when our SL was good it was me pulling her along. When she began to refuse certain positions and things that we would do I knew there was no interest in her exploring herself further. And then all of the other crap that happened killed what little was there to begin with.
It is her doing things to keep me around now but it is simply a chore.
I should just come out with it all and see where it leads us. I suspect to a divorce.
I should add that I want a SL like you are building Bagheera. I want a SL like DQ now has. I want passion like I felt with OW. I'm trying to find this with Mrs. Cinco... I don't think it ever was or will ever be there with her.
I wish for this to be with her but she must make the choice to find it. I don't want to be 70 and look back and wonder what living would have been like with a great SL. I want that life now, I don't want to wait anymore.
I know that you all have hope for Mrs. Cinco to want to explore her sexuality. Talks I have had with her tell me there isn't much there to explore. I could be wrong but even when our SL was good it was me pulling her along.
Cinco,
Take a look back over what I've written about our individual Sexual Archetypes, about Sexual Submissives in particular, and about all of the signs that I missed over the years with regard to my wife's own brand of sexuality. In my own case, it is I who MUST lead the relationship, and lead the sexual relationship in particular. My wife doesn't want to lead, doesn't want to take charge in the bedroom, and rarely initiates intimacy on her own -- and I understand why and accept that now. I am the "Keeper of the Flame" for us, I judge when it's a good night for a "fire," and if I've done things correctly, she "ignites" wonderfully. Mrs. B responds to my lead deliciously, but it is my passion which feeds her own. Taking the lead requires confidence on my part, knowing that I can occasionally reach out and 'take' the woman that I want and that she'll melt in my arms when I do: and even a year now after we began adopting this mode-of-operation, that confidence still falters from time to time, but I pick up and carry on.
What you need to do is to take a hard look at your wife, her parents, her upbringing, her former sexual experiences, and the history of your relationship with her, and start figuring out what her Sexual Archetype is -- and then learn to step into that role. Chances are, you already possess *some* of the qualities of that archetype, else she would not have responded to you in the years before your daughter was born. Start putting the pieces together. For all we know here, she could be the opposite of my wife and be a closet Dominatrix: hand her a riding crop and bare your a$$ to her and she may go gonzo on you! Alright, I'm joshing here, but you get my point -- Pick up a copy of Michael J. Bader's Arousal and put on your Sherlock Holmes cap and figure the woman out!
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
