A bit of blogging in my own thread, for a change this morning. I was thinking about mine and my wife's physical appearance in middle age (I'm 48 and my wife is 43), and our respective responses to and appreciation for each other's body as we continue down the road of marriage and SSM recovery. There are a couple of things that I thought I'd share with the men, in particular, struggling to recover an SSM with a low-desire wife.
Your appreciation of your wife's body
As LuckyGirl, Alimari, and several of the other women here have demonstrated, women tend to be their own worst critics when it comes to their own bodies --> *especially* as they grow older and nature takes its toll. It is all too easy for a woman to look in the mirror and consider herself to be sexually unattractive, and as her sexual self-esteem goes down, so to will her desire to share her body with you. Therefore, it is your job, as her husband, to help her to see the sexual, attractive woman that she is, in YOUR eyes. If she's gained weight and is out of shape, believe me when I say that she knows it and doesn't need you to tell her about it --> instead you need to make sure that you are a source of positive feedback and encouragement, and NEVER, ever go negative on her about it. You can change YOUR OWN diet to something more healthy and share it with her; you can exercise more YOURSELF and invite her to come along on a walk or to the gym; you can send her off for an afternoon of pampering at the spa / salon; you can arrange for her girlfriend(s) to take her off for an afternoon of clothes shopping at the mall with your blessings: however, all of this must remain POSTIVE and OPTIONAL.
Regardless of her current body state, your wife needs to trust, know, and FEEL that she is the most sexy and attractive woman on Earth IN YOUR EYES. Compliment her genuinely (never falsely) and often. Let her know what you find sexy and attractive, and when those moments occur during the day that either touch your heart or cause a rush of blood to your groin, tell her about them. Taking this ia notch further, DQ has frequently mentioned the joy she experiences when her man occasionally pins her to the wall, kisses and fondles her, then disengages: a brief display of masculine sexuality and power, along with an affirmation of her own sexual attractiveness to him. Most women can get a 'rush' out of their ability to sexually arouse and excite a man -- so don't be afraid to show your wife that she can do this to you -- let her enjoy it.
Just remember that in order for a woman to appreciate being a sex-object, she generally must FIRST feel loved and cherished outside of her sex-appeal. As such, NON-SEXUAL touch and comments should always outnumber the sexual ones. Choose your moments wisely.
Your wife's appreciation of your body
Women are FAR more subtle and secretive in their appreciation for men's bodies and sex organs than men are of women's. This is part hard-wiring and part cultural. Thanks to testosterone, men generally respond easily to visual or other sexual stimuli: the desire is almost always there, so it's easy to bring about the arousal. Women, on the other hand, need to have their interest and desire stimulated, and arousal is generally much further down the road. Culturally too, women have it drilled into them that Nice Girl's Don't fondle, appreciate, or even notice men's 'packages' or other sexually appealing attributes. This has changed somewhat over the past couple of decades, and women are now a little more free to openly appreciate men's sex appeal, but in general, most women still keep such things to themselves.
Nonetheless, be assured that your wife DOES watch your body --> and your package. Similar to, although *much* less obvious or conscious, to the way that men tend to notice and catalogue the breasts of all the women in a room, women tend to notice and catalogue the packages of the men in a room. They could probably point out who is wearing tight briefs or loose boxers, and even identify what the man's preferred penis 'resting position' is (to the left, right, or straight down). Again, this is all very subtle, secretive, and more 'background' observation than all the other things that are foremost in her mind. However, most women would never admit to 'penis watching,' so don't bother asking her. Thus, if your goal is to tickle your wife's desire for you whenever possible, take advantage of this feminine feature and give her opportunities to appreciate and admire you. No, DON'T lounge around the house in your underwear (this is considered slobbish and unappealing to most women): be -casual- and -subtle- about it. Don't be afraid to undress and dress in front of her. Actually shop for and wear flattering and attractive underwear (a novel idea to many men). Give her opportunities to observe and admire your scantily clothed or unclothed body, *without* drawing attention to the fact that she is doing so OR that you are flaunting.
This brings to mind the subject of flaccid / erect penis states. Most men are ULTRA-sensitive regarding penis size and therefore don't like to be seen naked or touched by a woman in anything but an erect or at least semi-erect state. Because of this, most women never even get to see a cold, fully flaccid penis until they've been in a long-term sexual relationship and even then, rarely. GET OVER IT GUYS! Part of the appeal, and women's fascination with, men's sex organs is the tremendous range of sizes and states that you experience. Scrotums expand and contract with temperature, testicles swell and shrink with sexual excitement, and penises can change in length and girth by 3-5 times between a fully flaccid and fully erect state (the textbooks say 2-3 times, but they've never measured a guy after he's just shoveled snow for an hour in 5 degree weather -- my equipment runs and hides). Stop being ashamed and let your woman learn to appreciate you in whatever state you happen to be in.
Another male feature you can both take advantage of is the fact that men frequently experience erections during REM (dream) sleep. This is the body's way of keep all of the systems and mechanics involved in good working order, and most men experience multiple erections each night, particularly in the lighter-sleep, morning hours. Couple this with the fact that most women find the feel of an erect penis against their body particularly sensual and appealing, and you have another opportunity to 'tickle' your wife's desire for you, even in just a warm, snuggling way -- you know the erection isn't the result of sexual arousal, and so does she, but it feels good to both of you and isn't going to lead anywhere (you might have to educate her regarding 'nocturnal erections' to put her mind ease). Now that my own SSM is well along the road to recovery and my wife and I often snuggle or stay in some form of physical contact throughout the night, I frequently sleep 'commando' for better skin-to-skin contact.
A note on appearance and grooming: always keep your genitals clean and well groomed for the best sex appeal. Smegma (I've always hated that name), residues of urine leakage, Cowper's fluid (pre-ejaculate), or semen (which is particularly 'fishy' smelling) should NEVER be an issue -- if it is, go take a shower. Don't use artificial powders or fragrances, however. In the same way that her natural scent 'down there' can drive you wild, your own masculine musk will have a similar affect on her -- as long as it isn't overpowering or stale. For the best appearance, you might also trim your pubic hair to a shorter length closer to the body, which, in turn, will help you look 'bigger' and not buried in fur. In addition, you might also consider shaving some areas, depending upon your preferences and practices as a couple: I personally keep perennium, scrotum, and penis-base shaved -- it looks and feels better, increases skin sensitivity, and is more enjoyable for both of us during oral stimulation. If the thought of shaving your scrotum scares you, Google it. It's not all that difficult or time consuming once you get used to it.
Alright -- hopefully, I've given you guys some ideas, and clued you in to the fact that women look, and appreciate too. So act accordingly, but just as subtly and covertly as they are about it.
Take care,
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Sigh... If only Mrs. Cinco realized just how lucky she is to have a specimen such as mine to admire. I even asked her a few months ago if she "checks me out" when I am nude.
"Eeewww NO, why would I do that?"
Which reminded of a quote I once read in a Taken in Hand website posting. These remarks are in regard to a survey on human sexuality conducted by Abraham H. Maslow in the 1930's and early 1940's. Maslow interviewed many women and concluded that they fell into three "dominance groups" -- high, medium and low. The below quote about Maslow's study is from Colin Wilson, who wrote the book New Pathways in Psychology (1972):
The high dominance women were, as you might expect, precisely five per cent of the total. Sexually, they were inclined to promiscuity and experimentation - many had had lesbian experiences or tried sadomasochism. They liked males of even higher dominance, and regarded the male sexual organ as beautiful.
Medium dominance women, the largest group, were basically romantics. They liked the kind of men who would take them to restaurants with candlelight and give them flowers. They were looking for Mr Right. They were capable of a certain amount of promiscuity, but it was essentially a second best - what they really wanted was a husband who was a good father and provider. They also wanted him to be slightly more dominant than they were, but not too dominant. Very high dominance males scared them. This group didn't have any strong feelings about the male organ.
Low dominance women didn't much like sex. They liked the kind of man who would admire them from a distance for years without daring to say so. They were terrified of high dominance males, and thought the male organ downright ugly.
But all three groups needed a male who was more dominant than themselves. One very high dominance woman searched for years for such a male and when she found him she was finally happy. But he wasn't quite dominant enough, and so she used to provoke quarrels that would end with him slapping her about, hurling her on a bed, and raping her. These sexual experiences she found most satisfactory of all.
-- Colin Wilson, pages 27-28 in the introduction to The Gates of Janus by Ian Brady (2001).
Keep in that this is all very general, and is 75-odd years out of date, but I don't think it is terribly off. Our beloved DanceQueen probably falls into that small high-dominance group, my own wife is of high-medium dominance (possessing qualities of both), and Cinco's wife probably falls into the medium-low dominance catagory. And so as not to contradict my earlier post, I also tend to think that women in that medium-dominane group, while not finding the male organ 'beautiful,' still find them attractive, fascinating, and arousing.
The important point for the men here is "But all three groups needed a male who was more dominant than themselves.," which takes is right back to our discussions regarding women being attracted to masculinity, men being attracted to femininity, and establishing a relationship that allows each of you to display and enhance those traits that attract your spouse the most.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
which takes is right back to our discussions regarding women being attracted to masculinity, men being attracted to femininity, and establishing a relationship that allows each of you to display and enhance those traits that attract your spouse the most.
B - this could be one of my fundamental problems getting the type of sex I dream of. Mentally I consider myself dominant (Mid -High?), I know what I want and verbally I direct ML in whichever way I choose. All the romantic stuff, I love doing that kind of thing. Mrs. Cinco thinks it's silly and feels awkward to be made the center of attention.
Physically my build is not all that masculine, I still have the body of an adolescent and I'm 48 years old. I'm thin, lean and don't do anything to stay that way, it's just my body type. I even did body building for a time. I just ended up toned but no larger. I get the compliment most often from women, "you're cute".... evidently that doesn't elicit much sexual desire from them though.
The point being, the mid-high dominance woman that I desire mentally would never be drawn to my physical appearance, it's just not masculine enough for them.
Add to that the hiding of Mrs Cinco's femininity. There was period of time many years ago where she did such a good job of turning me off, through frumpiness, that I didn't want to have sex with her. I think that was the idea too, she didn't want it.
I want to get to that point of establishing a relationship that allows each of us to display and enhance the traits that attract us to each other. It still boils down to wanting to make it work between us. I still feel like I'm doing all of the pulling.
I compliment and encourage her when she does things that I find attractive: hair, makeup, clothing. What else can I do?
The point being, the mid-high dominance woman that I desire mentally would never be drawn to my physical appearance, it's just not masculine enough for them.
I disagree with you here, my friend. Masculinity is not about height, build, or body type. Sure, these physical attributes are the first things women notice and respond to, BUT trus masculinity is about self-confidence and having a presence, for lack of a better word. Men and women sense it, by the way you carry yourself, by the way you speak and interract. I have met small men who could comamnd a room by their very presence, and I have met huge, muscular guys who showed themselves to be followers, just in the way they carried themselves.
Masculinity and Femininity is 90% mental. Remember the woman that DQ described who weights 200 lbs, but who has the self-esteem and self-confidence to be feminine, sexy, fun, and vivaceous --> regardless of not meeting society's stereotype body? The same thing goes for men: you are what you THINK you are, to a very large degree.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
I was waiting for Bagheera to respond before saying exactly that. Self confidence, presence, knowing you are a man that women want... Nothing hotter. I've seen not-so-attractive guys with that kind of confidence, and they are HOT!
Something about a man who is comfortable in his own skin helps me be comfortable in my own skin. You want to get a piece of that confidence and self-love, you know?
Hi, I havent posted on this forum before, but I have been following you guys for a while. Me and H are trying to "reconcile" (on and off, weird sitch) and during MC we both admitted that we fear our sex life wont be "that great" and that is the reason I am trying to get as more info/help etc I can get...
I just wanted to say that a man that is confident, is the best aphrodisiac for me and if that man is also able to express admiration and strong desire for me and my body then... it works!!! It has NOTHING to do with appearance or body type for me either. It's all a matter of how you "carry yourself". And I think it works both ways, for both sexes.
I think I am in the small percentage of high dominance women, I dont peek at men's packages and still havent been able to enjoy sex although lately I feel I am ready and willing to... My dream is to become like DanceQueen one day K
Ok, I do see the point of what you are all saying. The piece that may have to do with our problem was Mrs. Cinco's withdrawing her sexiness. It really had an affect on my confidence. I questioned my desirability.
I don't think I said this over here yet. There was a time when she told me "Cinco, you aren't that great in bed". Talk about a blow to my self esteem. That's about the time I snapped too. Damnit I am a good lover and I know I am, she is wrong. I wasn't the one squelching our SL and attraction for each other, it was her.
Our D was a small child at the time and I couldn't bring myself to leave. If I was a type-A personality that would have been the end of the marriage, that's not me though. As a "Nice Guy" I felt like a victimized. So I began acting out sexually which eventually led to the A's. So stupid and weak...
I'm working on getting that confident me back. It's not easy to change.
I think the "presence" of a man is a big part of it. This is one of the areas I've had to and continue to work at. I've been blessed physically and played pro ball a few years and have never let myself go physically. Confidence wise I sometimes struggle though and I've noticed women can really sense that. You can be in tip top shape and get ignored. I was criticized a lot by my dad growing up and it created a bit of "I'm not good enough" feelings in me. I think I've gotten over them for the most part but on occasion they creep back in.
A guy can only be a good lover if he has practice with people who tell them what works for them. Did you ask why? The details of what she does/doesn't like?
My GF's and I have discussed how we all like different things. Some like the jackhammer, some hate it. Some like the romantic, passionate approach, some think its cheesy and a turnoff. And, then, there's the connection thing. Eye contact, etc.
