Jack, I'm not getting into a pissing match with you either, I never said that everything was 100%, in fact I have said many times in my post that MOST, NOT ALL. Last time I checked, that isn't 100%. You are correct in the sense that 50% or more of 1st marriages end in divorce. That number jumps to 60% or more for 2nd marriages. However, not all marriages that fail have an MLCer in them. I was strictly speaking in terms of that. Jack, you don't have to be a statistical expert to see the success rates here. Does that make a scientific or statistical fact? No, it doesn't, but when you look at the number of people here on the board and equate the success vs. failure rate, I definately think that certain trends are clear in regards to it. I also didn't say that people shouldn't try to repair thier marriage, if its something they feel they need to do, by all means they should and all the best to them! I wish them every success! I do think that when the LBS get to the point of total desparation, and the MLCer is so mean to them to the point they are reaching at every straw, I think its time to get out. I don't mean to be cruel or mean to anyone with my postings, I just hate to see folks put through all of that B.S. I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree on this issue. I do respect your views, experience, and opinions. I also take my hat off to you for being one of the select few who put it all back together!