WAW

[markhaving probs]

Hi Saffie,

The phone thing came out of leftfield. Knowing how my wife used to be, this is not the sort of thing she would have suggested. Her 'reasons' were that if she was in a bad mood, or if I was in a bad mood when either of us rang, we could engage in a row. She also mentioned my daughters age and said that if she was with me and she wanted to talk to her privately then she could. These sound quite desperate 'reasons' and if I am not being too paranoid I sounds like to me she does not want me checking up on her.

I totally agree with you about somebody pulling her strings. She said again last night there is nobody else, though she would say that, but she is engaging in behaviour that is totally unrecognisable and strange. I am also wondering whether she is trying to get me to hate her so that I can speed up this process, she knows how I feel about her but I do not say any ILU's.

I agree again regarding the children. I am disgusted she is using the children in this way, it is unforgivable to try and browbeat me into signing documents so that she calms down. Saffie, as much as I do not wish to leave the marital home, I must because it relieves the tension at home which means she cannot vent her anger at me, the children will not have to put up with arguing, and I can control the divorce proceedings more. If any documentation arrives I can process it at MY speed and I regain a small degree of control. Who knows, with me not being there maybe she can start to analyse the situation better, though if she is being 'driven' this will not make one iota of difference.

She always wants to know what savings I have, I have not told her catagorically. I do not believe she has done sufficient 'number crunching' pertaining to staying in the house. I am going to pay the mortgage until November when the fixed arrangement runs out, then she is going to get her own mortgage and help from childrens tax benefit and other handouts.
We received a £500 gas bill, £300 water rates at the same time, how is she going to fund living in the house, unless someone else is?

She would/has NEVER considered C as she did it would not make any difference. I agree about her scruples - she is hellbent on divorcing. She has not wavered in her pursuit of this since the bomb dropped. Her tenacity and focus has even surprised me, there has been no 'thinking time', no thought to me, just the end goal of divorcing. As I said yesterday I do not think I have any stratagies to play now. DR to try and save the marriage is now a waste of my energy, though I have not given up on her, but a female work colleague told me she is treating you like a bast***, forget about her because you are wasting your energy trying to stop what looks like an express train with the intention to run you over. She says to concerntrate on me and the children (this is from someone who has never seen DB/DR)and try to be the best dad you can. Admirable advice I think. I don't know whether her anger is because of me, the situation, stress, pressure, though I got to forget about her and GAL.

I will also try to keep the moral highground, but does it look like it is all over - period??

[markhaving probs]

Saffie,
another reason to leave - She looked a million dollars last night as she was dressed up to go out. She was wearing the blouse I bought her at Christmas (I don't know if this was deliberate). I cannot look at her and just want to hold her, and I then I start to think she will be in the arms of someone else. I must stop tearing myself apart, particularly as the spring arrives and all the new clothes she has bought will come out and she will look even more stunning. I feel so low.

[markhaving probs]

No definately not. She would have no idea.

[markhaving probs]

Guys,

Thanks for your responses. You all have the same answer about the solicitor, and in hindsight I should not have signed them. I just wanted to take the argument away from the children. Kev, it does smack of desperation but I wish I could understand why there is such a hurry? It certainly is hurtful as she clearly does not give a damn about me now.

Is 'detaching' completely letting her live her own life and only talk with her in regard to the children. As I was saying yesterday, this could be construed as 'more of the same' as communication has been one of our problems. I was definately trying to do a 180 on this one, but should I be DR'ing at all expect for the GAL as nothing is working.

[JCJ]

Mark,

Take a deep breath, it is a horrible shock you have had but at the moment everything is too raw. Reconciliation will take a long time, this is not going to be resolved quickly - you need to accept that. You also need to get practical. Here are some suggestions.

Long term - Reconciliation

The DB coaches say there are 5 stages to reconciliation.

1. Reducing negative feelings and guilt
2. Friendship
3. Dating and romance
4. Reconciliation

Argh, I can't remember the other one!!! If anyone wants to jump in here feel free... ok, I will try and look it up. Anyway, you are in the reducing negative feelings and guilt stage.

Short term - 1. Reducing negative feelings

She will be angry, try to control you, blame you, stamp her foot and try and get things to go her way. The most powerful thing you can do is step back from the power struggle between you. Be seen as co-operative and most of all be calm, it will also help the children stay calmer too.

An example (just my opinion, others may have a different way)
So when she demanded that you sign the papers now, you could say 'thank you for getting these prepared. I will look over them and get back to you' *She reacts angrily* you - 'I understand that you want this to be done quickly but I am not going to sign these until I have had a chance to read them' *She reacts again* you - 'wife, I will not be signing these papers tonight. I am going to go into the other room/ leave the house and I will talk more about this tomorrow.' Do you see? You are calm and remove yourself from the situation to give you both breathing space. She is taking advantage of your shock. So you have to pull yourself up by the bootstraps now. You need to be strong and you have already proved you can be.

The more you fight against her the more adamant she will be. Reconciliation may come later when the emotion is taken out of the situation.

Short term - 2. You

You also need to focus on you and your children and start getting practical.

So what are you going to do? What are your plans? Here are some things to think about. You can share here if you want but you need to start getting some things in place, she has had longer to work out her game plan than you.

* Practically speaking - in terms of getting legal advice, the house, finances. Find out what you are legally entitled to pay and what she is responsible for. Most important get those papers looked over - you can book an appointment to do that today.

* Emotionally - How are you going to deal with her outbursts from now on, how are you going to protect the children, what steps can you take to play your part in protecting them and stepping back. You do not need to worry about going dark/ long term - what are you going to do over the next week?

Some things to think about. Now is the time to get practical and not to get bogged down in detail. If you want any help, post away. I'm happy to help get things in perspective.

[Can it work]

Mark

Once again JCJ is speaking complete sense. By the way JCJ, my DB coach only gave me the 4 steps you mentioned. I wasn't aware there was a 5th.

Detatching doesn't mean going completely dark Mark. Like my situation I think going dark is wrong for you as you still have to communicate with your wife to make arrangements for the kids and that. At the moment you obviously aren't in a position to communicate with your wife. Or rather it sounds as though she's unable to communicate with you. Either way, you need to step back. Stop trying right now. Answer her questions calmly but firmly. Don't be rude but don't say too much either. Don't pursue her. My DB coach explained to me that pursuing can be something a lot smaller than what I originally thought. When you asked her where she was staying on Friday night, that was pursuing. Don't ask her how her nights out went, don't ask her how she's feeling etc etc etc. I know you say that you had problems with doing these things before and you think that doing them now is a 180. You're probably right but you should leave these things to a later date. Your wife doesn't want to hear them right now. Not from you at any rate.

As for the other man issue. I obviously don't know for sure in your case but please believe me when I say it isn't always the case no matter how much like it it seems. My situation is very similar to yours but without as much raw emotion from my wife perhaps. I think that could just be a personality difference between my wife and yours as much as anything though. The main thing is that I know for sure that my wife was not seeing someone else nor is she yet. She still left me though and did in quite a hurry. Her love for me was gone and she didn't see any point in continuing. So, I detatched, started getting a life, enjoying my son, and manned up a bit. Obviously that doesn't make me even nearly an expert but I do know I can say for sure that it gets easier.

Kev

[markhaving probs]

Thank you J,

Lots of great advice there. Practical - I must admit I did broach the subject last night. This has to be handled delicately as I said I was not prepared to pay two sets of house bills and the mortgage and the rent. As she has limited income this is one area where she is completely clouded. I need to clarify who pays what, especially as my job finishes next Friday. Every other area of our relationship is driven and focused.

Emotionally - I must not get drawn into an altercation. I have to withdraw and not engage into conflict for the childrens sake (I will have to keep repeating this too myself). This also allows me to try and prepare a response to her without getting emotive. (Hard to do). I am moving out on the 10th April for 11 weeks and then she is moving to her parents house until mid August. From April I need a strategy to work on - going dark or grey because of the children, detachment, whatever it takes to remove the reason for her rage ME.

[DrHemlock]

Mark -- I'm going to agree with @can it work here.

I "break" a lot of the DB "rules," but it seems to me that there isn't a one-size-fits-all approach here. I live in this house, with our children; I care for them; I handle their kidly affairs. W lives in the house, for the time being, and generally pays most of the bills. I'm being positive; I'm GALing; but when W is sitting across the kitchen table from me, with our kids happily munching away on a pizza or some snacks, I can't ignore her.

SO I make myself as emotionally distant as possible, with this caveat: it was emotional distance that GOT ME HERE in the first place, so more of the same is NOT a 180. Instead I listen, I validate, I do the "Madagascar" penguins thing -- smile and wave, boys; smile and wave.

I don't get emotional (angry or sad). I don't contradict. If I don't agree, I simply say, "I understand that's your POV, I happen not to agree w/ it." I do emotional jiu-jitsu. I make it about her: "I hear you, I understand that's your POV."

But I think @JCJ and @can it work are correct that you need to stop getting angry.

Peaks and valleys, dude; peaks and valleys. Who knows whether THIS PLACE is the highest point of the valley or the lowest part of the peak? Only you. And the way to know that is to COOL OUT.

The self-help guru Anthony Robbins used to talk about "disrupting patterns." Our lives are like records, he would say (vinyl). We live them in the grooves. Want to change your life? Scratch the record -- it will never play the same way again.

So scratch your record, dude; if X makes you angry, next time X happens laugh hysterically. Or make monkey sounds. Or blow your nose. Or smile and wave, boy; smile and wave.

But do SOMETHING differently.

[markhaving probs]

Thanks Kev,

I really am getting great advice and I want to thank you sincerely. I remember in a previous mail you mentioned you are making 'baby-step' progress. If this is the case I will gain alot of strength from it, but I also know I need to have patience, patience and even more patience.

Once I get a new job I will sign up with a DB councellor, but in the meantime thanks again.

[markhaving probs]

Doc,

That was great. The Madagascar penquins analogy really made me laugh, and seriously that is the first time I have laughed properly since I don't know when.

Again, I am receiving tremendous feedback and I want to thank you for it.