Divorce looming #6

[JDOllie]

Kevin,
At the risk of repeating myself - when I stood up to my wife, and told her that my kids came first, and stopped letting whether she was angry or not guide what I did, things started changing.

We are not back together - but things are getting rough with OM, and she is treating me with AMAZING respect. I am prepared to file divorce this week if I must, and I will do it - because I and my kids need closure, and I need to be an example to them.

I never understood you leaving to go down there either - even though I know that you can stay with your parents. If it were me, I'd work at McDonalds, and get food stamps to make ends meet to be with my kids.

I appreciate what you're doing, and I know how you feel, but when you are "free" from your wife, it is unbelievable.

I still love my wife, and she can still do/say things that hurt, and the whole situation hurts, but I am FREE.

[FitChik]

25,

But I know that God's will is not divorce. That I know. So I have started praying that my M be saved but at the end I say his will, not mine be done.

Kevin

This is my prayer everyday too!

[K4D]

I talked to W tonite on webcam. Only because she was on it when logging the kids on. I didn't intiate the conversation. She did. She was just telling me what the kids were up to. She was getting ready to work out again.

I told her I was almost down to my ideal weight. I have lost a ton of weight since this D process began. Part of it from not drinking anymore and the other part from eating less.

I have also been walking when I feel up to it.

She told me that was great to hear and that I must be happy about it. I said yes, I am happy about it.

Then D7 got on. She seemed to be doing better tonite than last night. Her and D11 went to the natatorium today and had fun there. I was glad to hear.

Kevin

[25yearsmlc]

Gentlemen, some of you are missing my point and nit picking semantics here.

Kev, the "R" you have with your wife right now is toxic to both of you. IT has to end, so you can have a healthy relationship with her which we ALL HOPE means a real marriage. You don't have that now and that is not God's will. Your claim about God's will is a great sound bite but it has been used by you to stay stuck, and spin your wheels in so many directions you actually don't move at all. I never said to file for divorce.

You wanted her to move to Florida just last month!! - you said that was your "dream"-- and now the next thing out of your mouth is she can't move there-- "not without me" and now, you now claim that means "not without my permission." Oh really?

Whatever Kev. Whatever. You DO have a control issue which is terribly ironic given the rest of your circumstances. You want to control and boss and dictate, but you have no leverage or power with which to do so. You measured your own worth in money terms, Obsessively, and now you don't have any money but are going to get financial support from your wife, and you were an attentive dad but then you took yourself away from your kids. Yeah, I'd say your choices are not all well thought out and she has a dang good point.

What do you want me to say? Bark orders at her? Fine, go tell her off. Demand your kids time? Fine, but don't make demands you can't back up; i.e., have a place for them to stay b/c homeless dads' don't get custody often.

If you want to be a dad, you have to have a job to help support them, and a home for them to go to. Wherever that is, it has to be. Period. End of story. Maybe, just maybe, if you focus on this, on making THIS happen----maybe your wife will see you in a different light and wake up....--- but maybe she'll think you look better in purple hair --or she'll think the sky is brown...you have NO control over what she thinks or says or feels. So forget about controlling HER...

I think you've left some details out of your story a few times here, so it's really hard to help. Your whole decision about Florida and leaving Dallas "for training to get a better job", and now wanting back in but without a job, and putting everything on your wife b/c of the A is over simplified, getting you nowhere, and self serving-- but only in the short term. Meaning, we can't help you when you give us partial truths.

You may think you sound better and may make her the "wrong" party-- but the thing is, you are not getting anywhere. I don't know you. I don't know your wife But I do know what you've said your wife told you; and she has said some things to you that DO RING TRUE, and you are not dealing with them.

Instead, you get guys riled up here about an evil "Cheating wife" and all they see is that -and the desire to punish, but when i say this M has to end, suddenly there is talk of "being loving"...or getting respect. Lots and lots of talk about respect. Which I think, (and it's a guess), but I think respect is something you did NOT give your wife for a long time. And maybe you didn't give it to yourself either b/c as you yourself admitted, you "Got complacent" and drank too much, and weren't ambitious like you once were and you fobbed off a well paying & high responsiblity job onto her shoulders, which she took on.

You can now play it with your own spin, as if she's suddenly materialistic and all she cares about is a certain salary, but I don't know if that's it. I dont' think that's fair or accurate. Plus you want financial support from her too, while you "find yourself". Imagine being in her shoes for a minute. I mean, there IS another way to look at this isn't there? Or better yet, put this in cave man terms. I think it helps at times to keep this simple.

If you think in cave man days about what women needed, it was to know that the cave was safe for us, and our offspring, and we'd care for the cave and protect the offspring --but we needed to know our mate would come home in the evening with some meat. The man needed to know a home would be there when he returned and that his offspring had survived, and some warmth awaited him. The women wants to know that the holes in the cave would be patched up so no dangerous animals could come in, and we'd stock up on grain and fruits and nuts for the storms in the winter----but if the mate did not come home with meat, b/c "he got complacent" and we had to go get the meat AND make sure the offspring were fine or still managed most of the childcare-and most women do even when they work full time-then the female of the species will not feel safe. She will realize that her mate is not bringing home much and it will feel unsafe and if he is oblvious for long enough, she may look elsewhere. Is there a safer cave? Is there a cave with a hunter in it who brings home enough meat for her and her offspring as well? ((No, don't jump up and down about how I'm defending adultery b/c I'm not. Just bear with me and see if anything resonates and if it doesn't, fine, drop it))

But I am tired of making this ALL about an affair, b/c for women, affairs mean a lot more than sex. I am sure that some men feel that way too, but I have never ever known a woman to have an A for purely sexual reasons. In my experience it has always been about something emotional. For my female friends that is.

But there's a lot more to this M's story than OM, isn't there? Until you really own that, you will stay mired in the same place Kev.

I hope you open up at your bible class and get a lot out of it. I really do. You are young enough to make changes in your life that can change the way you live and the way you raise your children and how they see men. You can overcome this. But your wife has some legitimate issues with you that you have to face Kev. Stop the deer in the headlights act and focus on what you can do to fix what you can fix. Forget about OM. That won't last. It can't. She's already discussing living elsewhere and if she wants the kids to see your relatives without you there, now and then, so what? Big picture---it cannot hurt you AND it's good for everyone b/c there's no tension. I think it could, in time, lead to something more, but you and your controlling nature and impatient ways, want to force things now...hey Kev, how many women are still posting here? I just got curious about that.
Good luck, seriously. I hope you make it.
(( j ))

[K4D]

Ok, all good points. Wow, what can I ever say whenever you speak. You really know how to lay it on the line.

Well, I am not opposed to her going to visit my sisters family or my dad. I also think it could be good and help in putting things back together. My dad said he was opposed to her coming to his house without me. I didn't say.

I'm not trying to control where she wants to live. I am only trying to control whether or not I have access to my kids.

Yes, I should not have come here. I should not have left Texas even temporarily. I realize that. It was a big mistake. I fell to pieces and did not handle myself like a man. I let to many insecurities get in the way and didn't stand tall.

I also let money get in the way of my thinking. I thought I don't want to struggle again financially. So I thought up my skills and get a better job immediately. I let alot of things get in the way of thinking clearly.

In doing that, I lost sight of what was most important. I was trying to keep up with W financially so I didn't struggle and I could provide for my kids as well as her. I totally lost sight of what was most important.

I admit. Yes, I was controlling in the M. I admit that also. I admit I made a ton of mistakes in my M. She has lots of valid arguements against me and the way I handled things for years. And I admitted that to her.

And I agree that the A was not about sex. The A came about because of problems in our M. She just took the A to another level is all.

I admit, it is very hard for me to move past this and detach. I am rather pathetic in that sense.

Ya, where are all those other women that used to post. Good point.

On the one hand, I have Stuck808 telling me to stand up for myself and on the other hand, I have you telling me not to be controlling.

I agree I made all bad moves. I just want to do the right thing now and I want to make sure it is the right thing.

Geez I'm so confused now.

Lets break it down like this.

The kids need me.
I need to step up and be there for them regardless of income as JD said.
I miss the kids.
I need to be an example to them.
I need to show W I can be different.
I need to not open my mouth when she says anything.
I just need to be friendly and concerned about my kids.


I feel like every move I make is the wrong move.

Kevin

[K4D]

Believe me, I don't want things bad between me and W. So I have got to learn how to not react to anything she says or does. That is what is hurting me the most I think as far as making any progress at all with her. I have also got to stand on my own 2 feet in the face of anything and work my way from there.

I'm not going to be able to get a job from here. I have to be in Dallas to get a job there because I have to be able to interview in person. I have never been able to get a job from a remote distance.

So do I go ahead and head back, stay with my friend so I don't impose on W and get a job so I can see my kids? Or do I stay here until June and just keep studying. I keep wondering what the best route is.

W said she needs the space right now. But my kids don't want me gone. They would rather have me there.

And yes, she is supporting me while I am down here and maybe she shouldn't be. Maybe I just need to head back and get a job and get a place. But I don't know what is best. That is what is best for me and my kids. But I know it would greatly anger W for reasons you have already listed 25.

Ugg...

Kevin

[MrBond]

wow now that's some tough love right there.

hey 25mlc, how'd you like to talk to my W? : )

[LR1]

Mine too

[K4D]

I will give you my w's cell number or email address if you will talk to her as well.

Kevin

[25yearsmlc]

Kev,

There are no easy clear cut answers or you'd know them or we'd all agree and that would be that. But you broke things down well there. You had not really done this before with the moving, and if you make your NEW choices with clarity of intent, meaning that you are honest about why you are making a given choice and it's a good reason, it's hard to see you going too far off.

In reality, You did not go to Florida to get training for a better job; you ran away b/c it hurt too much to be around her. I understand the need to get away. But calling it something else is what confuses you b/c you came to believe it, and we all thought there was a training class, or at least I did. When I realized it was online or something you could do anywhere, I was shocked.

So you have to know yourself well enough and be brave enough to know WHY you are making whatever choices you are making. For instance, Being a good dad is different than wanting to punish your wife or "teach her a lesson" etc, so you have to keep checking yourself. If you truly know why you are doing what you are doing and it's in your break down list of justified reasons, then go for it. In other words,

The kids need me.
I need to step up and be there for them regardless of income as JD said.
I miss the kids.
I need to be an example to them.
I need to show W I can be different.
I need to not open my mouth when she says anything.
I just need to be friendly and concerned about my kids.

Those are now your basics...the underlying reasons for doing what you do.
Figure out a few behaviorial specifics that will reflect how you are different, such as not losing your temper or blurting out, and making sure you don't seem reactive..but have a picture in your mind of what it looks like when Kev has it all going on ...

I don't know your job options but that's your area of expertise. Don't know why you think the only good well paying job in the world has been dumped on your wife's shoulders--are there NO more left anywhere? Why don't you try to get one of those? Or just get something in that area (which isn't hurting your career) to be near the kids? Do you really have a place to live, or are you going to be homeless? It matters. Remember...have a PLAN....

The guys saying "get back to your kids" are right. But have a PLAN...please, do that first. Get a plan. Then act on it. As long as your plan is in alignment with your listed goals, you'll be as right as any of us can be. You know, we ALL have made mistakes in this process. Don't forget that.

I'm in piecing and close to saying "busted" (I will not rush into saying that until something like a year has passed without doubts or backslides) b/c I did do some things differently. But yeah, I made mistakes. Many. So eventually it just got to be whether something felt morally "Right" with God and simple, I just kept checking myself about why I wanted to do or say something. And was it going to get me closer to my goal--ALWAYS asking whether the likely result of my comment/action was really what I wanted.... whether it was coming from a place of love or something else... Like "am I caving in out of fear, letting a boundary get crossed, or am I changing my mind based on new info?" "Am I trying to teach him a lesson and let him "learn" to act the way I want, or am I simply detaching?"

No one wants to be a doormat. You shouldn't be. I think a DB counselor would be a great idea for you. A really great one.And though money is an issue, if you consider what has likely been wasted over the years and what is now at stake, then you can see why I stress it. But in the meantime, maybe act as if you are sad but resigned to what your w wants for the m, ie to end, but that your focus is on being the best man you can be for yourself and your children and that does include some career considerations. Just adult stuff. No R talk. No M talk. Just working, your new life (the GAL you'll be doing) and the kids.

My suggestion as to what your attitude requires...
Accept with a gracious regret, that she has chosen to end the M and the reason you regret it, is b/c you believe children would be best served by having both parents in the home, AND more important perhaps is b/c the M could be wonderful, given all your insights and new behaviors...which she'll have to see OVER TIME to believe...SOOOOOO
No more begging her or checking her feelings. I am SURE she'll let you know if her feelings change. You'll sense something in her actions BUT BUT BUT please do NOT hang onto any half decent gesture of courtesy and assume something or read into it, or wonder what merely polite behavior means, or she'll shy away from showing any kindnesses. Just be the best man you can be for the kids and yourself and leave the results to God. Kev, please re-read the past paragraph about not reading into things. She'll tell you.

Until if and when that happens, assume you are to be a great, active and happy single dad. You don't have to give up hope but you do have to move on. Why? B/C nothing else has worked and you have not gone dark--you have not--and your wife has indicated that the pursuing behavior is a turn off for her, so...think it out. But that's how I see it. And unlike some situations, your is clearer to me than most. At least this stage of it is. You have to man up and be strong, upbeat, optimistic about YOUR future, your kids, and oh by the way she'll be somewhere else--too bad, so sad--her loss as time will reveal...and then LIVE THAT WAY...

180's + time = change she can believe in. (And besides, aren't these 180's and changes you want to make for you anyhow??? Then do them.)

(( j ))