WAW

[markhaving probs]

Guys,
My wife is going out tonight with some girlfriends to a restaurant. Should I compliment her on how she looks, or just say "have a nice time". She has not commented on me when I go out, but one of her previous gripes was that I neve told her how she looked when we used to go out. I did actually at times, but as Puppy said, she is trying to re-write history.

Also, it is her birthday tomorrow and I have bought her some presents, but they have been labelled from the children. I also have a card for her which I have not written yet - should I give her a card to show I care, and if so what should I write in it. It is a plain card with no I Love You on it. I have always done tis in the past but I don't know if this would be Needy and Persuing.

By the way, when I moved back into the marital bed, my wife moved out of it and now sleeps in my sons bed.

[saffie]

Mark,

Personally I wouldn't go dark on her completely. Because of what she has cited on the D petition I would keep up on your 180's but without actually pursuing your W. You can still help around the house and do all the things you said without being needy, clingy and pursuing.

I think that in the months ahead, unless you get another contract quickly, your W's ambitions of separating are going to be somewhat financially constrained anyway....from what you said earlier she doesn't seem to have a completely realistic attitude to what it will take.

As for the birthday stuff, she will know that you helped the children with the presents etc. If you did want to do something for her do something that involves thought rather than grand gestures....run her a nice bath with candles or something. If it is completely out of character for you to do this buy her a massage somewhere to help her destress. I always think NOT marking an occasion like that is just another way to earn a black mark....but one should not go overboard either.

And when it comes to compliments a quick "You look nice" couldn't hurt I wouldn't have thought. Just keep a casual tone of voice rather than a flirty one.....just like you might say to someone else's W when you meet up as a couple. completely platonic.

[JCJ]

If you want to say she looks nice I would say it when she gets back or maybe the day after in a kind of 'oh by the way you looked really nice last night' way. When she goes out I would just say 'have fun'. Don't know what others think?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Hi Mark,

I can't remember if there's an infidelity or not in your sitch, but my general advice is if there IS, then I'd do a simple Shoebox-type card with your handwritten first name in it -- nothing romantic, no nice note. Plus gifts from the kids.

If it's general waywardness (no adultery), and you were always GOOD with the cards and notes and stuff, then I'd still recommend the above.

If it's general waywardness and it would be a "180" for you (you were never good with cards and gifts in the past), then I would do a lil' sumthin'-sumthin', but nothing too needy or pursuing.

Hope that helps,

Puppy

P.S. For the outfit, I've said "Oh! That's a nice top" or whatever. Almost like I was complimenting the TOP, and not HER. But I'm pretty snarky that way, and my marriage has lots of issues with some past infidelity and overall NPD stuff, so you might not want to go by me.

[PortlandDad]

I think it depends on how your W is likely to perceive the compliment, and if it is something that you would normally have done in the past or not.

If you are normally in the habit of giving compliments, and your W wouldn't think it was pursuing, then I would say fire away. However, if you aren't usually known for paying compliments, or if you think your W will be uncomfortable with a compliment, or if she will become suspicious of your motives, then I would say don't do it.

[markhaving probs]

Guys,
Thanks for all your advice last night. Unfortunately, last night turned out to be one of the worst since the bomb was dropped. When I returned home I was slightly excited in regard to all your advice about my wife's birthday, I had the children's presents wrapped and the cards were written.

When I walked in I said hello as usual to the children and my wife, I normally get the nominal response from my wife so there no surprise. On the kitchen worktop were three copies of divorce papers pertaining to the children and the actual petition with the 'reasons' for the divorce. I unfortunately got agitated as all the documents were open to the back page where the petitioner (wife) and the respondent (me) has to sign. I said I would take one of the documents away as there were 3 copies and look at it and sign it when tomorrow or the day after. This met with complete hysteria from my wife - "Why don't you just sign it, there's not much to it, its only stuff regarding the children". I started to argue the point that I wanted to study the paperwork before signing anything, she then continued to become very emotive and then said "You said you could not wait for the papers to arrive, here they are. You are such a liar, you say one thing and you do the complete opposite, I just cannot trust you". My children were now listening to a full-on argument, my D10 ran down the garden, and my S6 was crying his eyes out saying "please mummy say sorry to daddy, please daddy say sorry to mummy". I went down the garden to console my daughter who was sitting quietly on the bench. she wanted to know why we always argued (she knows we are divorcing), and said if I went away for awhile I could come back and everything would be ok. I wished it could be that simple I thought to myself. Inside my body and head I felt like I was shutting down, I did not know what to do or say, I just wanted to be somewhere but I did know where. I took my son and said we are going for a walk for 5 minutes, she shouted back that his dinner was ready, I went anyway as I needed to get out and my son was as upset as I was. My son bought some sweets for mummy and we walked back, and as soon as I walked in I was then asked to sign the papers again. I was so low that I got the papers and signed them just for the children's sake, I started to look at the 'reasons', but I could not continue as I was getting inwardly upset and stopped reading.

She then proceded to get ready for her evening out. Again, I backslid by saying "I'm sure you'll have a lovely evening with your girlfriends now that I signed these papers". She did not respond, I was then stupid enough to ask her where she was staying on Friday night and she said with a friend. She wanted to sleep in the marital bed but I said no, you sleep in our sons bedroom as you have done for the last two nights. (I would have had to sleep in my sons bed otherwise).

She then said she was going to gat a cell phone for our daughter so that I did not have to ring my wife's phone if I wanted to talk to the children. I did not quite know how to take this. Is it because she does not want me checking up on her, or is she trying to go dark on me, even though she knows nothing about DR.

I lay in bed with my son wishing I was dead. The whole evening had been a disaster, I could not sleep and when my wife returned I asked if she had a nice evening. She muttered yes and then called me a selfish pig for sleeping in the marital bed. Please could somebody put some perspective on last night as I nearly in tears writing this and cannot see any way forward.

She has just texted me to thank me for the cards and presents. There was a kiss on the text. I have not responded. Please respond in kind.

[saffie]

Mark,

(((((HUGS))))))

I am sorry you signed those papers. You really shouldn't sign ANYTHING without reading it properly. There was duress involved there.

I went down the garden to console my daughter who was sitting quietly on the bench. she wanted to know why we always argued (she knows we are divorcing), and said if I went away for awhile I could come back and everything would be ok

Wow, that above comment smacks of your W getting to your D and trying to influence her.

I think it strange that your W suddenly wants to give a 10yr old a mobile phone ......and for this reason? Does she not want people to see your calls coming up on her phone? Who would she not want to see that? Because presumably if you need to phone your children they are with her....they are not young enough to be left alone. Or is she planning on leaving them places?

It does begin to sound more and more like there maybe an OP involved. She sounds a bit like someone is pulling her strings.

Look, if you don't want to get D'd then you don't have to help speed up the process. I imagine when you said you were looking forward to the papers arriving you were feeling stressed at the time. You have got to learn not to let her anger and agitation affect you this way. She has learnt how to manipulate you. YOU WERE QUITE WITHIN YOUR RIGHTS TO ASK FOR TIME TO READ AND DIGEST THOSE PAPERS BEFORE SIGNING THEM. In fact, I would have shown them to a L before signing.

It also seems that she is using the children's distress to get you to do what she wants. She can see that it upsets you. Please journal all this stuff so that if needs be you can bring it up.

Read those papers and if you wish you hadn't signed them then take action and explain to whoever you need to, your L, whoever, that it was done under duress.

I am going to ask a personal question now which you don't have to answer if you don't want to. You say that in the past the financial side has been a problem. You also mention about this house you are doing up having really drained your back up 'savings'. Is there a real likely hood that you may financially go belly up when you finish working if you can't find another contract quickly? Is there a chance that your W is trying to remove herself from the situation before this happens? Does she realise that pushing through a D fast doesn't actually 'sort' the finances out....that all still needs doing?

There is certainly something that doesn't sit right here.

Your W is acting out because you are not doing what she wants about the marital bed. Stick to your guns....that is HER problem. Somehow though she needs to be stopped from using the children as a weapon in all this. She seems to have no scruples about upsetting them and that is just plain awful. However bad she perceives the M to have been, as a good mother she should keep all that 'crap' away from the kids. I wouldn't move out personally. I wouldn't trust her not to poison the kids; children should never be used as a weapon. I really would talk to a L about this behaviour - it's got to be stopped. She can say whatever she needs to about this stuff to you when the kids are in bed or not around.

Would she go into some sort of C or mediation with you to try and sort this out without the kids getting hurt?

I truly am shocked by your W's attitude. Don't trust anything she does; it sounds like she has no scruples for some reason. Goodness knows what is going on that makes her feel justified to act out like this in front of such young children.

BTW - does your son not need his own space too and his own bed? I would be tempted to go even further about the bed thing and tell her that your son should have his room back and that if she needs somewhere to sleep the sofa is available.

[saffie]

BTW Mark - just a thought - but if your W has seen the DR remedy book then do you think she may know you are posting here?

[JCJ]

Mark

Please please please take the papers to a solicitor. If you don't want to physically read them, get them to. You say you did it not to upset the children, think long term here.

Learn to remove yourself from a heated discussion and stay calm. Do this for the children and for yourself. You can always walk away and say, 'lets discuss this later in private. I shall go out for a while till after dinner' or something. Get away from the situation. She knows how to manipulate you and is taking full advantage.

I'm so sorry it sounds like hell there at the moment. Take Saffies advice, go to a solicitor.

[Can it work]

Mark

I'm really sorry and horrified to hear about your night last night. I completely agree with what Saffie and JCJ are saying. This has to stop now. Your wife is manipulating you and you can't let her keep doing that. You've done well keeping the marital bed. Now extend that to other aspects of your life.

I really wish you hadn't signed those papers. It sounds as though your wife was acting out of complete desperation there trying to get you to sign them. If they were fair I'm sure she wouldn't be so adamant to get it done right away. Please take them to your solicitor.

Also, like JCJ says, learn to walk away. Bite your tongue, go for a walk, go and knock 7 shades out of a punch bag or something. Just don't let your wife bully you. Especially not in front of the kids. You sound like a nice guy and definitely don't deserve this type of treatment. Nobody does. Keep telling yourself that. You need to stand up for your beliefs and the well being of your children.

I would advise you right now to not even think about what you can do to regain your marriage. That's a long way off. I'm not saying it won't happen though. Right now you want to be thinking only about you and your kids. Let your wife rant and rave, let her scream. That's her problem. You need to detatch yourself from it NOW! Please, before she does any more damage.

Kev