It is hard to fake the 'letting go ' so you have to get out there and let go. Make plans for future that dont include her. Yukky we know and it might not be the case. Right now you have to deal with the 'real' not the fantasy. She has gone.
What do you need to do to move on -- another job ? what ?
Once you are of the mindset that it is just about you and the kids, she will i promise feel it. It is simply a shift in the way you are. I dont believe you can act it, it just has to be.
Make a list of what YOU need to do for you, little baby steps if need be.
Positively and Polly -- I must be dense or something, because I'm not quite understanding your respective posts.
My current sitch -- 2 elementary school kids. We both have jobs in area. She earns +/- 3x I do (rarer specialty). Both act pleasant around each other during in-house separation. No fighting, almost no yelling (W has yelled at me maybe twice since 2/13 bomb). Both agree don't want to sell house in down market, love our kids' school, don't want to do job hunt in down market. My job is perfect for being The Dad, b/c I only have to turn in 6 hours, so I can drop off and pick up school days.
Still not getting the "drop the rope" reference, tho.
As I posted earlier, after 1st DB coaching session went into MC #2 and said I get that divorce is done-deal in W's mind and think we should concentrate on recovering something (+) in our mutual relationship for benefit of kids -- not reconciliation but being good around each other. Have stated to her -- she agrees -- that this is immediate goal. That is purpose of MC #3 today and part of purpose of W separating physically.
No touching -- last touch was day before bomb. No co-sleeping. No ILY's from me (or her, duh). No "remember the good times" conversations.
GAL -- Started playing tennis every Wed nite at local university with professor friend. Volunteering at organization that does important work with disabled (relates to my specialty). Up-coming road trip for 4 days in convertible Vette with 2 long-lost buddies. 7 lunches since bomb. Going to concert w/ professor friend. Up on Match.com (and she knows it) to see what's "out there."
180 -- Very pleasant to be around these days. New technique w/ kids -- when they misbehave, I get quieter not louder. Keeping house tidy -- always one of her complaints was that I left my work lying around everywhere (which I did). Keeping a calendar and sticking to it -- one of her complaints was that I was disorganized and never knew what was going on (absolutely true -- ADD-man strikes again!). Set a procedure for after-school to make sure all i's crossed and t's dotted (joke!) on kids' work. Don't ask her if she needs anything done (dry cleaning pick up, etc.) which I used to do because, hey -- I had the time and everything is a half-mile from the house. Don't call her. Sometimes don't answer her phone calls. Short e-mails, no endearments, no R references.
As if -- Match.com. Joked about gay friend who told me he was "happy" (joking) about my situation b/c he always had a thing for me -- told W the other day "my attitude about this whole D thing has changed now that I've got my transitional man" -- both of us laughed sincerely. Reconnected with friends from growing up, college girlfriend "friended" me on Facebook and we've been chatting quite a bit (W and I are also FB friends, so she can see my wall and has asked, "Who's X?").
So that's my sitch -- not sure where I've gone wrong.
What I'm asking is for those who have done a PHYSICAL separation (not a nite or two, obviously) is to think back -- is there a "different" way to DB when you have less contact? Or are the principles and the strategies the same? Yes, I agree that DB'ing is about ME (i.e., "about you") but it's also, at least for some portion of the process, about trying to save the M.
Am I being clearer or not? Let me know -- I do much better vocally than w/ the keyboard. Thanks!
My H went by the book DB even after I moved out...and I definitely noticed. And it definitely made a difference. We still had to see each other to deal with children, school functions and the like, and he was his absolute best each and every time. I completely understood, though, that he was his best for his own sake, not strictly for me. There was/is still a spirit to what he was doing and I sensed it...and liked it very much.
Cheers ~~~
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
I have been reading along. I understand that you want a reconciliation and your spouse does not. And that in a nutshell, is why no one is giving you reconciliation advice. It takes two to reconcile. As long as one is dead set on divorce, that is the spouse driving. All you can do is make her question her choice. So we are trying to make you look more attractive. And if you don't look needy maybe you will be the the better choice. I don't remember though, does she have another man in the wings?
Around here, jumping onto match sites and friending old flames is not favored, so you are likely to get flack for that. I personally, think that jealousy is a good motivator, but I know others will disagree.
Anyway, you didn't get here overnight, and it won't change overnight. Keep up with the MC. Sounds like that is your best hope. If at some point she is willing to "try to make the marriage work", even if it is just for the sake of the children, I suggest that you get to a Retrouvaille weekend as quickly as possible. See the website for dates and locations, http://www.helpourmarriage.org. And don't let the affiliation with the Catholic church bother you. It is open to all. We are Jewish and it was the best weekend of our lives. Turned our marriage around completely.
Sara, thanks for the good words. I looked into Retrouvaille, but I think that would be one of these "does it get me closer/farther" things that would = "farther" at this point.
I didn't "reignite" w/ the old girlfriend to make W jealous -- regrettably she's not the jealousy type! It was actually old gf who found me, and we've had nice, purely "what've you been doing all these years" talks. The Match.com thing was for me -- WHAT IF I have to date again? What's that like?
Man waiting in the wings? I think it's possible. Certainly there is Abstract Man, the idea of the man who is "compatible." She's flirtatious, but always was, and I know she's been having an on-line flirtation with a former HS friend up-state. So there's that.
I intend to keep DB'ing; I'm just wondering if the dynamic changes after separation. If @Greek is to be believed, probably not.
Our WAS are finding us too clingy right now, too dependent and we have become a burden to them. It could be totally unfounded, of course, but that is what they think so we just need to accept it. So by dropping the rope, in her eyes, you stop becoming the clingy, whiny pathetic mess that she is no longer attracted to. Instead you will be acting more like someone who is a potential BF material. This will take a long time and much more patience that you ever thought you will need. But if you really want to save your M then you need to have loads of patience and acting ability.
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So DrHemlock, think Heath Ledger, Sean Penn, Robert De Niro. If she says anything that makes you nervous about her moving ever further away from you, don't panic. Just agree with her (again, acting ability). She won't be expecting it. Reverse psychology is an extremely powerful tool!
DrH, I'm in the exact same boat as you. I want to reconcile and the wife does not. I like this advice you have been given and intend to follow it. Both of our problems I believe is that we are being way to accomadating with regards to our spouses behavior--i.e. allowing them to come to the house when they feel like, etc. I am looking for some ways to set some boundries but not come off like a jerk. On the other hand, my wife left me, ran hard the day after I got back from Iraq and has been rather mean altogether. So, maybe I should be a jerk. I think you are overall doing a good job but need to accept that it is over. It may not be over but you still need to accept it until it's not over. I'm having a very difficult time following that advice myself and I appreciate the advice you've been giving me. I read something the other day about women being able to smell the stench of self-pity on a man and what a turn-off it is. I'm sure it varies for each individual based on how long you've been married but I know for a fact that my wife is very much tuned in to what I'm thinking. So, I have to concentrate really, really hard when interacting with her to keep her guessing. I don't know if any of this makes sense but keep pressing forward and act as if it's already over.
Last edited by AFWAW; 03/17/0905:44 PM.
M-41 ex-W-40 Together--17 years SS-20 D-14 Bomb--2 Feb 09 WAW--6 Feb 09 Officially divorced on 2 Jun 2010!!! ex-W has a boyfriend 8 Jun 2010!!! Off we go into the wild blue yonder!!!!
What I'm asking is for those who have done a PHYSICAL separation (not a nite or two, obviously) is to think back -- is there a "different" way to DB when you have less contact?
Ok I have being physically separated since mid 2008. The difference he is not involved in the day to day life of the family.
He would not know if i had gay transitional friend. He would not be my friend on face book He would not know which movie D went to with friends.Unless she told him. He would not know absolutly anything about my day unless he asked.
I was a stay at home mom and I shared everything with H , now he finds out for himself.
This is what separated means. Dropping the rope. I am no longer available emotionally to H and nor am i interested in his day to day life. Why would i care what happened at his work. He does not want to be married. Treat her as you would the next door neighbor. The kids will tell her what they want her to know or let her ask questions.
Other than the emotional attachment you are doing well.
Pollyanna has hit the nail on the head! It's your emotional attachment your W feels and that is making her run faster away from you.
What you want is for your W to work at pursuing you. If you live your life like an open book now, it will come off as needy. So what DB is advising is to be mysterious and let her curiosity get the better of her and get her interested in you. Do you make small talk? Does she ask about you?
My H doesn't ask about me at all so I don't tell. It's none of his business anymore. If he becomes interested then he will speak up. This way I can gauge where his interest level is. Once in a while I will bring up a small snipet of my life and see if he bites. If not, I leave it. Not the right time. Do you fish? That's the best analogy. Have the fish come to you. Don't go chasing after the fish, it would never work. If your dynamic is OK before separation and you both are getting along and everything, it will probably remain the same after separation. But be prepared that your W will probably feel very happy about being liberated right after she moves out. She will feel a sense of freedom, a sense of new life starting.
Don't take it personally!! (We all feel great when we get something new or do something new.)
Soon the newness feeling will die down as we acclimate into our new routine. It's at this time that she might seek ways to keep the 'high' going and that might include seeking new companionship if she feels lonely. She might also reconsider moving back in if she doesn't like the loneliness and misses the kids and her comfortable life.
Whichever decision she makes we are here to help you behave in such a way that will not alienate her while she is continuously evaluating her options. We want to help you become attractive to your spouse. That is why we have given you our advice. We don't know which decisions she will make but want to give you the best chance of a reconciliation.
Dropping the rope is counter-intuitive but it works because of the reasons I gave above.
Last edited by PositivelyMommy; 03/18/0912:14 AM.
Me:39 H:40 S:9 D:7 First Bomb ONS:June 07 Second Bomb OW: March 08 Separated: March 08 M:15 yrs T:18 yrs H deep into A with OW Achieved ACCEPTANCE May 30, 09
So a very WEIRD MC #3 today. MC keeps pointing out to W how young our kids are. This is irritating W. Frankly it's irritating me. Not because it's not true, but because it calls into question (even for me) MC's impartiality. As if she's trying to "guilt" W into re-evaluating her D decision. Which is counter-productive for my DB'ing. So I think we're going to shop for a new MC.
During the session MC called her bluff a bit -- "you know, you don't need Dr Hemlock's permission for this. You could simply serve him the papers."
Well, W had a good rationalization for why fools rush in, well, you know, hummana-hummana, etc. etc., but it was a point for Team H. But again, I was troubled by MC's advocacy. That seems more likely to me to push W away. And it throws a wrench into my DB'ing, which is all about getting her to stop running.
On the separation, W is looking for a new place. She's done a good job of rationalizing it, and what can I say? Not going to change her mind, so off we go. She did point out that she's indifferent as to WHO leaves -- I could leave, but then we'd need a nanny for the kids since W works so many hours. Logistically it doesn't make sense. And I can see that.
W says she needs the space and she doesn't want me to get the wrong impression when we get along -- which is most of the time -- and that's consistent with what my DB Coach says. So I'm pretty solid on that. And I tell her I understand, validate, validate, etc.
W says she wants to 'date' -- DB Coach prefers a less romantic term -- in order to rebuild some kind of friendship. W has said some nice things to Dr H, and so DB Coach has advised me to thank her for them, tell her I'm happy she said that, and move on. Which I do.
Now the "dating" thing is a bit of a problem for me, but on the other hand DB Coach says that I want to take every opportunity to replace a (-) association from the past with a (+) association from the present, so it's a dicey decision, but fortunately one I don't have to make just now.
With respect to @pollyanna, W is going to be involved in the day-to-day life of the family, so a "clean break" will be more difficult to manage.
