I am very afraid of this and think a permanent emotional MLC could apply to my M. I think my husband wrestles with leaving us to make his initial EA decisions right in the first place. He is so without emotional and communication tools that at this point, I can't imagine him unwinding these problems. I can see him going forward, living on the emotional fringe of life and being a victim to avoid responsibility. I can't think of many times that he has apologized. It has been more like 'I'm sorry you are hurt."
Hi BPretty. Just wanted to say that you are an amazing communicator and writer. The above paragragh is exactly what happened with my xH. Exactly. But don't let my signature scare you (the fact that I am divorced), because you are stronger than I was when in your shoes. You have found this place and your own inner strength as a woman in plenty of time. You are approaching this with more patience and less desparation than I did.
Staying the course is super hard, but you are doing a fantastic job. Its great that you see you aren't ready for any LRT, I love that you can admit it, and not do anything rash just to get a reaction out of your husband.
People, I promise you, almost without exception, these people would rather live in lice than admit to you they did wrong. How can someone come out of MLC if they are not able to admit wrong? I don't think they can.
On the other hand, Bravehart, I know of at least one MLCer who has often admitted he was wrong .. yet remains as stuck as stuck can be. Of course I'm talking about my XH. He's had extreme remorseful breakdowns and has told me repeatedly he is unhappy with his new life. Yet .. he does nothing.
He has run the whole gamut. Blaming me .. blaming himself Remorseful .. accusatory Talking too much .. talking too little Loves me .. resents me Calls me all the time .. calls me not at all But has never said he was happy.
After four years he still doesn't know what he wants.
After four years, I am just tired of trying to figure him out. Mostly I don't even try anymore.
My post wasn't meant to discourage you. My H was a walking timebomb (violent rages, several arrests (including one felony), etc.), so my XH was somewhat outside the MLC "box".
I just wanted to point out that some MLCers can recognize their faults and even apologize, but still can't find their way out.
I think that you not only have a good grasp of this whole MLC thing but you are catching on really quickly.
People, I promise you, almost without exception, these people would rather live in lice than admit to you they did wrong. How can someone come out of MLC if they are not able to admit wrong? I don't think they can.
On the other hand, Bravehart, I know of at least one MLCer who has often admitted he was wrong .. yet remains as stuck as stuck can be. Of course I'm talking about my XH. He's had extreme remorseful breakdowns and has told me repeatedly he is unhappy with his new life. Yet .. he does nothing.
He has run the whole gamut. Blaming me .. blaming himself Remorseful .. accusatory Talking too much .. talking too little Loves me .. resents me Calls me all the time .. calls me not at all But has never said he was happy.
After four years he still doesn't know what he wants.
After four years, I am just tired of trying to figure him out. Mostly I don't even try anymore.
To that I would say that he is just talking and not truly admitting anything wrong. I know you said he had those "emotional outbursts of remorse" but, if it were for real, he would have made amends. Just my opinion.
I am so sorry to be the hijacker here, but I didn't know where else to find you Jack. I wanted to seek you out for a quick question, that I think I know the answer to, but I wanted to make sure. Did your wife REALLY want to end it? Or was she just very confused and seemingly moving in the direction of divorce? Would you say it was patience that was your strongest weapon? If not, what do you think was?
My H seems to want to be a single man with as few responsibilities as possible. This past week, he asked me to come home, this is Thursday and give our friend that I'm staying with "his castle back" since our other friend, his wife is out of town until Tuesday. He said to stay at home and I thought this was an EXCELLENT sign. Up until Saturday afternoon, everything was fabulous. Saturday afternoon he came home and was just weird. I told him I would leave and go back to our friends house and he said ok. I was upset, but did well to not show it, but we did talk and he said in that conversation, as I was loading up to leave that "We are not getting back together." (Another piece of great advice I got....never give them a negative option....they will take it. Lesson learned. Late, but always better than never.) It gets worse. He tells me, after some prodding to come back Saturday night. So I did. He didn't get home until 2:45am, which really, didn't bug me. He doesn't do that often and I know he wasn't doing anything that would bug me. (Guys night with lots of basketball and drinking.) He was so distant to me though this morning. I pushed a little too hard because I let him get under my skin, huge no-no, but I did it anyway. I told him that maybe we need to move forward with the D. He needs to file. The problem we have now, or his problem anyways, my blessing oddly enough is that we can't afford to divorce. We really can't afford two households. But he said OK, if the county will take a credit card he's going to file soon and I told him to get his own insurance and to serve me at the place I'm staying. He told me today that maybe we should just take a break before we do/say something we'll regret. The girlfriend I'm staying with....her H is very good friends with my H. As a matter of fact, they spent the afternoon playing golf together as they OFTEN do. My girlfriend's H told her that for the last month he has wanted to tell me to give up. She finally pinned him down as to why. He said that my H often says things now like "....my soon to be ex wife...." And things like that and has been for the last month or so. I was so hopeful we were doing well and on the road to where we could create something new and wonderful, but I've been so wrong...so blind, so accomodating to him. My H has yet to have a whole weekend by himself with our S because I've jumped in to help because....I don't even have any good reasons for doing that. I'm so upset. I really truly am starting to feel we are at the end. I don't feel like I can turn this around anymore. It's been really really dark. I've even lost it in front of my S, which I can't stand myself for. How do I stop this? I've been so so stupid today. So emotional. I just saw him. I did the grocery shopping for the week and left S with him at home while I did it. He was pretty nice, and I was trying to not make eye contact, keep the speaking to a minimum and I could see him staring at me, trying to make eye contact. When we loaded up and left, he kissed his hand and waved it to me and gave me a pretty pathetic smile (it was actually so cute I wanted to melt) and I smiled and said see you later. Please get out the 2X4 and let me have it, but your insight is very important to me. I feel like I'm losing here.
The only problem I have with your numbers is that because of what you have seen and experienced these become FACTS to you. Facts that you offer up to others without any hard evidence and quickly to others.
Quote:
People, I promise you, almost without exception, these people would rather live in lice than admit to you they did wrong. How can someone come out of MLC if they are not able to admit wrong? I don't think they can.
Without exception?
That is like saying 'never' these are absolutes...
You are fantastic when it comes to offering advice for standing up for yourself. Always have been, your absolutes, your facts, however are faulty.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Sunday (my 44th birthday) H played online, multi-player video games for at lease 10, maybe 12 hours. Twice I pulled my 5 yo away from watching. These are mature fighting games. he plays 15-25 hours/week. It hurts to hear him laughing, joking and "happy" with his online friends. My IC suggests I escalate that info into a MC session--I haven't for the last two sessions--more of the leave H be approach since he knows we have agreed it isn't appropriate for our son.
My daughter is coming home from college so I changed the sheets on her bed and moved back to "our" bed. When the bomb dropped, my husband repeatedly asked why I was in a different bed. He said he was being "tested." His IC suggested he could invite me back to our bed. He didn't. The bed situation came up at MC--H said the separate beds reflected where we were as a relationship (separate) and shrugged whether he cared or wanted me back in the bed. I asked him (dumb) if it would be a problem if I was back in the bed last night. He said no and seemed relieved. So I go back to the bed and can not sleep there--just like after the bomb. I don't feel safe. I can't cry. I can't relax. The "silent treatment" in words and touch is heartwrenching. I move to an inferior twin bed in the T.V. room. If it comes up, I believe H will be the "victim" of our broken relationship and my bed hopping "punishment."
My IC and the MC seem to think we are "working" on our marriage and that I am not showing my full range of emotions.
Again, my constant analysis shows that the full truth of the MLC hasn't penetrated my beehive hairdo.
Ugg. Tears. Still trying to figure out how to reconcile DB w/ MC.
The entire session was focused on H. The C asked if I minded being a bystander. The C was having an exchange/discussion, etc with my husband and then trying to get him to reflect on the quality of the exchange and how it made H feel. It continues to be very difficult for my husband to see why he/anybody would want to feel uncomfortable or to talk about negative emotions (or even positive ones). He just does not seem to be able to get comfort from talking (maybe from anything).
Some statements/details of the discussion: He said we were in bad shape. He said he knows we are separated and continues to say it works two ways. Mentioned that since I said he needs to be the leader that he would be putting in more work and "hoping" he would get something out of it. Said he found a "positive relationship" with OW. He described our relationship going off the rails little by little. He is VERY angry and resentful and let some of that out. Feels like I have always only given him what I felt like (this is the very flagrant nugget of projection) and that he felt like 2nd class. He was bringing up examples of how he gave and gave and didn't get back (a backrub example) that were 5+ years old. He is very upset about our daughter coming home from college and "cancelling out 20 years of his support" (her ignoring him or being mad), because he "made an emotional connection" with OW. He downplays what he did with the OW but then holds it out as extremely meaningful. He is uncomfortable with our separateness. Wants to be closer. Afraid to build up the same thing we had. Doesn't know what the eff his needs are. Held my hand once last week and didn't think I reacted positively enough back. So that taught him to not do that anymore (victim). He said showing affection would be insincere. Said (as he was spewing) that I've always had time for whatever I wanted to do but not him. I said I made up what his wants and needs were and then tried to satisfy them. His feelings have always been a secret. He feels like he knows me but I don't know him. I apologized several times that that's how it was for him. He said now he's mad and I'm crying and now he has to fix my problems and why would anyone want a relationship with negative emotions. He walked to his car venting about going back to work because they want something out of him too. This is definitely MLC talking. Nobody who knows us would agree with the level of effort in the relationship. But he does FEEL that way and that is what matters.
The C asked us to experiment with some affection and communicating how it feels to each other (doesn't have to be sexual).
I don't know what to do with all this info. I feel like he is saying if I don't rescue him/us, we are done. I'm doing all I can to stay cool and GAL/PMA instead of chasing/overwhelming. I understand that GAL leaves him alone to learn that HIS problems will follow HIM and not actually be because of me, BUT, he continues to insist that he is the one who was forgotten and left out.
Thoughts, comments welcome especially regarding how to leave him to work through the MLC while we are in MC. They seem to contradict.
