Maybe I should be in piecing part 7?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Hope,

I think what you're dealing with is the stark realization of looking full-face into the REAL woman you are married to, rather than the IMAGE that SO many of us choose to BELIEVE we're married to.

I think many, many people (not just women) have this "I can change him/her" mentality; at least I know I did. "If I only say the right words, in just the right, persuasive sequence . . ." "If only I do the right things, help around the house, even GAL right, etc., etc. . . ."

I realized that MUCH of what I was in love with was the IMAGE of Mrs. Puppy, as I WISHED HER TO BE, rather than the reality of WHO SHE REALLY IS, warts and all.

I know you know all that already, INTELLECTUALLY, but maybe what you're dealing with is the raw emotions of having to actually stare all that in the face on Saturday and talk about it and deal with it.

Your wife is deeply flawed -- as we all are. I'm not so sure you had processed all of those flaws as they related to your marriage perhaps?

Just a thought; maybe I'm way off base.

Puppy

[Hope4us]

Thanks Pup.

I think what you've said has a lot of truth to it.

What I am struggling with mostly is, is this a person I want to be with. I mean, if she knew where it was going and did it anyway without any concern for how it would affect me and the kids and a whole host of others, is she really who I want to be with?

I'm sure what I'm feeling is what we've all felt when we're faced with whether we want to try to make it work or not.

It's almost like, for a year and a half I've been trying so hard to save our marriage, I never really thought about if I really can deal with this and will I be able to get over it?

Like I said, I'm sure everyone in these sitch's have had these same feelings. I'm sure it's part of the process of getting through it, but some of the things she revealed have really hit me hard. I guess it's good on some level that she's done that self reflection that needs to be done, but on another level, I'm just not sure, like you mentioned, if I've been in love with US and our marriage or her, if that makes sense.

Maybe I really should move over to the Piecing board to talk with others who have gone through this?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Not a bad idea.

[breakaway]

But some of the revelations are tough to deal with. Her knowing that OM had had numerous A's prior to it going PA the first time is tough to handle. Hearing that she knew where it was headed and chose to go there anyway is tough to handle. Hearing that she was attracted to him very early on and let it go on anyway is tough to handle. Hearing that she knew where it was going and just didn't think about the consequences and chose to do it anyway is tough to handle.

Hi Hope, haven't dropped by in a while...

I just wanted to throw something in here, about the particular kind of OM your W was involved with. Don't underestimate how these predators work. Seriously. They will f*#k with your mind in a way that has to be experienced to be believed. She probably can't even explain to herself exactly how or why it happened...like she does seem to understand what made her vulnerable...but not why it tipped into the affair.

It's not even "addiction" as much as mind control with someone like that. This is not to excuse it..please don't get me wrong, but these guys inflict enormous psychological damage on their victims. She's probably not even aware of it. (It's still her responsibility, for getting drawn in.)

I hope she does get rid of any gifts or items pertaining to him. Pressure to do so probably won't work, but if they go, it will help release her from residual problems.

[Hope4us]

Thank you Break. I hadn't thought of that. When I first found out OM was a player I kind of figured he'd spun his web and W got caught up in it, but then when she said she knew where it was going and did it anyway, I kind of threw out the idea that she was an innocent victim in the mess. No, I'm not absolving her of her part, but you're right, there are these kinds of predators out there and with our move, she found one. Stupid thing is, of the things she said made her vulnerable to the A, I'm not sure if they were things she noticed or if they were planted in her head......

Your statement makes sense that even if she knew where it was going, he might have been still controlling the direction.

I'm sure his previous affairs came up in conversations with W when he played the "poor poor me, my marriage sucks, blah, blah, blah". I've read numerous places that that is one of the players first lines in the conquest. That allows the victim to think about their marriage in a bad light which is right where the player wants them to go.

I think your comment about her not being sure how or why it happened is pretty accurate. There have been at least 3 things that went on during the time of the A (2 non A related and one related to the A) that she just doesn't even remember. I think she recognizes what made her vulnerable, but I really think she doesn't have a clue how she let it go there.

She said to me Saturday night, "I don't know why I did it. That's not the kind of person I am". And she's exactly right. That's not the kind of person she is, but it happened.

I have educated myself enough about all this to know that it can happen to anyone if you don't protect yourself and your marriage by having a plan in place to not let it get to that point. I think it was very telling when W agreed with my question that she felt he was safe because he was married and so was she and before she knew it it was too late. Guess that kind of falls in line with your comment about the predator he is. Just reinforces my thoughts that he needs a good a** kicking.

This has helped Break. Not sure if it's helped enough, but it's helped.

Thanks.

[breakaway]

I'm not using the term "predator" lightly, either. It's polite to call him "a player." More likely he's a sociopath/psychopath. People think that word means serial killer, but that's a small number that do that. Most of them walk around us all the time. There are probably a few on these boards. It's hard to get your mind around it if you have a soul, but they really exist.

She might not know what made her so vulnerable, but HE did.

http://enpsychopedia.org/index.php/What_Attracts_the_Psychopath%3F_Vulnerability

Recovering from these people is not easy. I'm in a support group for it right now. It even causes PTSD for many people. I have mild symptoms of it.

[breakaway]

I think your comment about her not being sure how or why it happened is pretty accurate. There have been at least 3 things that went on during the time of the A (2 non A related and one related to the A) that she just doesn't even remember. I think she recognizes what made her vulnerable, but I really think she doesn't have a clue how she let it go there.

Some people actually have the ability to bring on a dissociative state in NORMAL people. These people are sociopaths of course...some come by it naturally, and some go about LEARNING it, which makes you suitable for prison, IMO.

There are entire websites devoted to teaching predators how to make a person more suggestible (planting ideas in their heads as you say)..how to break down their natural defenses...they WANT a person who isn't "like that" or who would never do anything like that. That's the goal.

I totally agree with you about not getting yourself in a position to invite trouble if you're married, and I have always practiced that. I, too, thought I was in "safe" situation with OM because it was online...and began so seemingly innocently. And it's gradual, how it works. Now I know that it was anything but innocent on his part...it was very calculated. If there was a Hall of Fame for brilliant psychopathic liars, he would be in it.

[Hope4us]

Wow Break.

I don't want to try to be an arm chair psychologist, but you might be on to something. The thing is, the things W now complains about were things she either initiated or admired in the past. Saturday night she said after we moved she discovered she felt smothered because we were always together, even at work. We drove in together, ate lunch together, drove home together. I remember one time a number of years ago that I suggested we go out for lunch with friends and she told me no, she liked having lunch with me and then asked me if I had a girlfriend. She also said she hated that I dominate conversations and I distinctly remember one time her saying she just loved listening to me carry on conversations with our friends because she loved how my mind worked and I thought of things she'd never think of. But, we relocate and all of the sudden, those things made her vulnerable? Kind of sounds like she had some outside influence telling her how to think.....and we know who that might have been.

I remember one point when she was in the middle of the A, but before I figured it out. We were discussing something going on in her job (she's an admin) related to decisions getting made and how she felt like she should be making some decisions that in all reality are decisions mgmt should be making. Well, at some point in the conversation, I said something to the affect that she was an admin and those decisions should be made by mgmt. She went off, yelling and crying hysterically because I made her feel like nothing. And this was so unlike her. She's always been very smart in how the company org chart works and she's known that she is not in a decision making position, but her reaction to hit really made me wonder what was going on.

Around that same time she said to me she hated her new job because no one listens to her in staff meetings and because she's been around for so long, she had good points/ideas and no one would listen.

Seems like you could be on to something that OM might have sensed this and played on her insecurities/vulnerabilities to move in for the kill.

I think predator is correct. Don't know if you've read my whole sitch, but in the previous A that OM had that his W knows about, the day OMW's dad was taken off life support to die, OM wouldn't come home to be with his W and kids. That night he was in a DUI accident with the current OW he had. Nice guy, huh?

Can you explain to me some of the PTSD symptoms you've experienced? I take it there was a predator in your past also?

[Hope4us]

[quote=Hope4us]

Now I know that it was anything but innocent on his part...it was very calculated. If there was a Hall of Fame for brilliant psychopathic liars, he would be in it.

Gee....what was his name, sounds familiar.....

[Hope4us]

Ya know, another thing that makes me think you might be right on the money here....in one of my conversations with OMW I asked her how she had stayed married to him for so long when he'd had 4 A's that she knew about and her reply makes sense.....

"He always knows the right thing to say......"