stella: dancing in limbo

[brandnewday]

Stella,

The Man is MLC'crazy!!

So many of the exact same things have come out of my Husband's mouth.

I will write a longer post soon, I just got back from work and need to unwind a bit.

As far as the sex thing...also MLC, although there m,ay be some validity into what he is saying.

Only you can answer that, as you know what went on in the bedroom.

My Husband said many of the same things during his MLC, as did many other MLC'ers here. Sex is a big deal to them.

((((((((((hugs)))))))))))

[stella_k]

(((Kalni mou)))!

When did I ever ignore your opinion, my amateur C :)?!

I will read the book... I should have done it a while ago, LOL.
I don't think we can have a consultation, though. We're so broke it's scary, given my mom's situation and D in college...

(((BND)))

Well, I'm afraid, H does have a reason to complain...
Still, I wonder if MLC is talking here as well. It wasn't all that bad after all.

H has called me a few minutes ago after what was presumably "the closing talk with Spider". Surprisingly, he didn't sound too much down. When I asked him how he was, he said: I'm alive. I didn't like the thought of him sitting alone in their apt but he said that he's leaving it right away.
I asked him if he'd like me to take our dog, meet him downstairs and go for a walk with him and he said, that'd be nice!

I'm afraid to get hopeful again, but once again - so far so good.

Can't wait for him to get here and tell me how it went with Spider...

[BobbiJo]

I have been watching and cheering from the sidelines, I post to Kalni so I have been reading about you, too!

I am cautiously optimistic for you. Keep the faith and see what happens! Enjoy the walk with H and the dog!

[stella_k]

Hey, BobbiJo, thanks for posting to me and thank you for your optimism, I really need that.

The dog walking went well. That's about the only thing that did go well. H was very open about his convo with OW and it seemed not to affect him that much. By the time we got home, though, he started changing, got a bit of an alien look and talked MLCish.
Next day - he comes home late again, very alien look, tells me he's going to see IC and wants to start ADs (he stopped taking them in October). He said again, I guess I'm crazy. And he sure looks crazy! Restless, jerky movements, beady eyes. Finally he reaches for a bottle of wine. It relaxes him a bit. Then he starts a R talk.
As I sit there just listening, he tells me stories about OW. How they could be happy together if it wasn't for the "stake in his heart". Sick of it !
He broke NC and came here two weeks ago precisely because he wasn't happy!

He wrote a beautiful poem about betrayal, Love gone and wedding ring lost and showed it to me. I asked him: is your love gone, then?
After a long, long pause, he said: I love you very much. And then he tried to explain his exact feelings. That his heart starts pounding every time he sees me, and then he gets closer and I'm disappearing, like a mirage, and what's left is a stranger he has no feelings for.

Validate THAT!

And then he goes on and on.

That he's afraid to end up in the dark place where he was before MLC started (many of them say that).
That I've done such and such things to hurt his feelings during our M.
That he made a mistake and let OW to control his life and now he's missing the freedom he had with me.
That he's attracted to her sexually and there is nothing he can do about this attraction.
That it's not over yet.

I've told him, I KNOW THAT.

So - another sleepless night.
All the while I was fighting back two words: GO AWAY.
I looked at him and I thought: what am I doing, letting this man sit here in front of me, telling me endless stories about OW an how great she is and how he cannot break free from her, telling me how he doesn't have any desire for me, doesn't enjoy my company, misses only the freedom to do as he pleases (something he cannot have with OW), fears the "empty" feeling he had when we were living together.
I know, I shouldn't give up now, after all he has come a long way and has really taken some serious steps towards reconciliation.

My head is spinning, I didn't have a good night sleep for a few days in a row, but I think I'm pretty much detached.

Of course, I was expecting him to slide back (thanks, BND!) but it's still very hard to take. I think he's not ready, he's still very much in the fog and may stay in the fog for a long, long time. I'm not sure I can take it, watch him struggling with his madness day after day. When I asked, why didn't he leave two days ago when I asked him to, he said: my emotions keep changing.
He admits that he's weak and he's not even ashamed of it anymore.
He's exsausted, miserable, insane.
At the moment I feel like I'm locked in a cage with a large wounded animal, in great pain and therefore very dangerous.
I cannot really DO anything, just watch his movements and listen to his moaning and growling.

This is not life.

I keep asking myself: is this what I want?
Don't I deserve better?
How can I go on when I'm so tempted to end it and have some rest and start living for ME only?

Sorry about all that complaining, just needed to vent.

(((all)))

[Kalni]

Stella,
like all people here, I ve been reading and reading and reading about Rs affairs, MLC, separation, divorce etc etc...

One book I just got yesterday, said that men even when they return to their wives, ARE ALWAYS vulnerable to the OW. Even after they reconcile and live in a marital bliss, if the OW is available they cant get her out of their system. Its His Needs, Her needs, which Michelle even suggests. He says, contact must stop and he even suggests move to another state/city if possible... (!!!).

It seems what your H is going through is normal. I wish I could say it will not last long but I think it will...

Find courage to the fact that he made the decision. Try to be the stabile one and try to connect with him again. Dont use words to connect, use your attitude. And dont forget to take care of Stella.

Feel free to ignore as always...
K

[glamgirl]

Wow, Stella that is some pretty heavy stuff. I have no advice, since I am still waiting for my h to return, but I am thinking of you and am excited to hear that another one returns.

Don't expect it to be easy, but I do believe it will get much better if you give your h the space to grieve and grow.

Not fair at all though. You worked so hard and this is what returns. Stay strong!

[stella_k]

(((Kalni))),

I appreciate the fact that he made a decision.
Unfortunately I don't believe that his decisions last.
And H himself doesn't believe it either.
Once, many years ago, he told me that he never gives his word as he knows himself to be incapable of keeping it.

And, yes, I think it will go on for a long time. Sigh...

Not fair at all though. You worked so hard and this is what returns.

I KNOW, Glamgirl :)! What a mess!

Well, H went to see IC today. I called him on his cell as he was leaving IC. He said he's on his way to pick up ADs from a drugstore.
I don't know what to expect from him today, I just hope it's not going to be him venting until 4 AM again.

For some reason I'm sure that he'll bolt again, and very soon.
He WANTS so badly to choose me, to come back, to love me again, therefore his constant false starts. He keeps coming back only to find out that his feelings for me didn't return. Instead he just gets irritated by everything I do and doesn't want to be around me. So sad.

Ever since he came back, I'm having a knot in my stomack again and every evening it's getting heavier by the time I expect H to show up. It is definitely not the "happy" return and I'm still toying with the idea to ask him to leave, again, and this time to mean it...

I'm also thinking about goinf=g away again, returning to my teaching job in Asia, alone, if he won't come with me. And he already told me yesterday that he doesn't want to go (it was his idea initially). If I get my job back I'm going to be able to pay for my mom's full time nurse.

I will wait until the ADs kick in, of course. It will take a few days or so. And I will see if he will really move his stuff over here during the weekend, as he promised.

[Kalni]

Stella,
he is trying. If you were in his shoes, what would you want him to do for you?
K

[stella_k]

WOW, Kalni, great que.

ok, let me think... Take care of the household, listen and validate, create a quiet and pleasant atmosphere in the house?

Oh, and not to speak of my feelings. He's the only one with feelings right now.

Need to think more.

[stella_k]

Journaling:

H started his ADs. He had quite a bad reaction the first time he took it, he was shaking violently, had a panic attack and couldn't sleep. It turned out he made a mistake by taking it at bedtime instead of morning.

Next morning he took it again and by the evening he was his "alien" self. All the signs of emotional intimacy were gone. Once again he was aloof, trying to avoid me as much as possible, not even looking at me. I know that he spent some time on the phone with Spider, he told me so.

I don't know if I deserve 2x4, I think not, but I started a R talk. I asked him what his plans are conserning Spider and keeping in touch with her. He said, he cannot imagine not talking to her at all yet and he will not accept NC with her if such is my demand. I said, I just think it's wrong and doesn't help our situation at all, it only prolongs everybody's agony. He agreed with that, but he said he cannot see the way to avoid it.

He also tried to explain his feelings for me and Spider again. He said, he'd be sure he loves her if he was blind and deaf . That he still thinks I'm beautiful and he likes talking to me and that we are deeply connected, but he cannot imagine been intimate with me.
In short, what he feels towards me is friendship and sympathy, not love.
He doesn't know if love will ever return.

I had to tell him that I cannot accept friendship instead of love. Still, I would do anything to help him, if he'd allow me.
He said, may be he should stay with his mom for a while, just to be able to pull himself together and work. It shows that he really is desperate for some peace of mind and feels that he cannot have it neither with me, nor with Spider. Normally he'd never stay with his mom longer than few hours.

I'm a little bit confused now, because according to DB rules I should give him space, not initiate R talk, keep myself busy and happy and let him be. But I'm absolutely sure that in our sitch it wouldn't work. After a couple of days it starts boiling over and it's painful to watch H sinking into his dull silent despair.
I think he needs me to aknowledge what's happening to him and not to pretend that everything is fine and I'm content while he's suffering next to me.
What's happening to him is not just grieving over OW and he's nowhere close to start healing process. Guilt was eating him alive and he came back in order to set things right, hoping it will somehow work out. Now that he's here he doesn't know how to BE, there is nothing he can do about it. He only lightens up a little bit while watching his pup.

I think that in my heart I'm ready to let go completely, I just don't know how to proceed about it. I don't want to tell him to leave. I think he appreciates our R talks but it's taking us nowhere. Now that I'm typing it, I'm not even sad. I'm so tired of all the heartbreak, I've no feelings left. Or may be it's just today, I don't know.

I also started to question his MLC!
I was his love from the first sight (and he still likes the sight of me), he waited for 6 years to get together (he waited out 2 long term boyfriends of mine), he was madly in love for many years, it must be extremely painful to him to accept the fact that he simply stopped loving me and he's struggling with that awful loss the best he can.
Hence his waffling and coming back.
But in his heart he knows the feeling is dead.

Is there anything any of us can do?

Right now I feel like moving as far away as possible, like Addie did, away from him and his drama. If the miracle will happen and the feeling will come back, he will find me. If not, I will start my new life, knowing I've done all I could and more...

If any MLC vets recognize the symptoms I've described (both H's and mine), I'd greatly appreciate an input. Is there anything I'm missing here?
I keep swimming in mud and cannot see the bottom...