What's next???? The adventure continues!!!

[AFWAW]

I actually think the lack of forgiveness may be one the reasons she has left me. I have seen her hold on to things for a long time not including what she feels towards me. She has given me numerous reasons to include freedom that she didn't have before, she claims I was controlling, mean to her son(feels I treated him poorly at times and differently than my D)--did I teat him differently?--you bet, he was a different person--could I have done a better job?--you bet--did I make mistakes?--of course--Do I have regrets about some of the things I've said and done--absolutely. She feels that I was too hard on him and never gave him the benefit of the doubt--I shared this w/ D13 because I wanted her to understand. She simply said "Why can't she just forgive you and come home?"--I told her I didn't know and couldn't make her.

Other things wife brought up--claims she was #2 to D13--hey at times she was--I gave D13 a lot of affection--it was unconditional--wife's was not--I woke up way too late on this one--In the word's of another DBer on here--if it would help save my family, I would crawl through broken glass to show her how much I love her.

The wife brought up a few more things that she claims were reasons to leave--we had been married maybe 3 years and had to drive from her parents to the airport to go overseas--it was like an 8 hour drive and she refused to drive as I not let her drive the rental car from the day prior. Anyway, she haranged the crap out of me in the car on the way and I finally got tired of hearing it, promptly pulled over and kicked her out on the highway--not my finest hour--after she walked about 20 feet, I quickly realized what I'd done, pulled up beside her and apologized profusely and convinced her to get back in the car--this was in the 1990s btw--a long time ago.

Another reason she cited was a time I had kicked her out of our house. She threatened divorce a lot in the past. She had done so on the evening previos to this incident--I didn't react to the threat that night and the next day she had seemed to have cooled off. Matter of fact, if memory serves, she was actually very pleasant. I was going to the store and asked her if she needed anything--she stated that she did and said I'm still divorcing you though. I snapped, grabbed her by the arm and promptly led her out the door. She sat outside and threatened to call the cops, ruin my career, etc--after it was over, I apologized, she did too and we made up.

Who knows what else she has stored in her mind? Hey, I'm not proud of these moments and I'm not making excuses but I never hit her or cheated on her. If someone says that they forgive you and holds on to them for years and years then I can see why she is so bitter towards me and has left.

The problem is she's not just affecting me, she's affecting my daughter. I told my D13 all of this. She said she needs to forgive you. I said, honey, I don't know what to tell you. She said well, I want to live with you.

So the bottom line is sadly that my wife is a very unhappy person who I feel has given up a husband who loves her more than she knows and would do anything to make her feel loved(this hurts the most I think, probably because I love her very much and feel like a failure for not adequately showing her in the past), a beautiful daughter who needs her mommy to come home and needs her guidance and unconditional love, an awesome house and a real chance at happiness if she wants it. She has to choose it though. I continue to pray for my wife to find the spirit of forgiveness before it is too late.

[DrHemlock]

AF: I think you've received some outstanding advice from Puppy, Mel, Portland, et al. One of the things I've (finally) learned is that compartmentalization is key -- no different from handling classified, btw. With D13 it's a question of "need-to-know." She doesn't need to know everything. That's not being deceptive, that's recognizing that you can't pour a gallon of milk into a pint container. With respect to W, it's compartmentalization for you -- what bits do you choose to let in, what bits do you not "need-to-know?" Why doesn't she forgive you? Who knows? You can't look inside her head. So in a sense you don't have a "need-to-know." You need to work with the information you have. Your earlier posts are incredibly positive sounding, but these later ones sound like you're letting W chip away at the foundation you're building.

[AFWAW]

Actually, I feel stronger. I have come to the conclusion that if she doesn't want to forgive me then I can't make her and while I will wait for a while if she was to come back then she would have to forgive me to make this work. Last night was about concentrating on my daughter. I think my D13 should know that the wife won't forgive me--at least it makes her feel like it isn't her fault that her mom left her. If anything, I would rather her blame me than the wife. Did that happen? No, she wants to know why mommy can't forgive me? A valid question I feel as no one is perfect.

And as far as my need to know regarding the wife's decision to leave, I think you're wrong. The reason being that if she decides to come home(which doesn't look promising at this point)I will do my best not to repeat past transgressions and if she doesn't I have a powerful lesson that I have learned and hopefully will not repeat in the future. The funny thing is, I don't even feel like crying now. I feel incredibly sorry for my wife and hurt for my daughter because of this. I will continue to be positive for my daughter and hope and pray that my wife can find forgiveness in her heart and make her way home before she misses out on what could have been as I love her with all me heart.

[confusedinpa]

AFWAW

My wife actually told me about 4 weeks ago that she forgave me. I thought great! Then the but came, she said that she can't forget and doesn't know how to get past the hurt/pain, blah, blah, blah.

I was devestated again - I broke down and was a wreck because I thought that was the key.

What I realize now that forgiveness is just the first step, which may be the "easiest" for your spouse, but the hardest part is to rebuild/regain the trust that has been lost.

She had told me a couple of weeks ago that she still can't see trusting anyone, especially me, with her heart as I had broken/hurt it so badly. Again, I broke down, not as bad as I've been getting stronger, but I let her know how much it hurt me.

The key thing I'm focused on now is that in the past, I always thought that my wife was the soure of my happiness. I was so wrong. I realized that during counseling on Monday nite.

My wife is a source of her love for me. My sons are a source of their love for me. I am my source of my love for myself, which is the true source of my happiness.

Sounds like you have a great relationship with your daughter. Don't let this mess drown you in the muck to hurt that relationship!

[DrHemlock]

Ah, my Air Force friend -- and congratulations on the BSM, by the way (just caught up on the thread) -- I would maintain that you don't need to know WHY she left, because none of us can know that. Like my W, yours seems to have a need to identify a Bad Guy. I remember back in the old days, on the firing range, the targets were all made to look like Soviet soldiers -- identify a bad guy and shoot better. So she'll be more than happy to tell you ALL the things you did "wrong," whether (a) you did them and (b) they were wrong or not! What I've finally got MY head around is that DB'ing is about identifying HOW you went wrong and changing that. But it seems to me that this is a process of INTERNAL discovery, not external.

A WAW/MLC'er will ALWAYS find a laundry list of things to blame us for. But if we take those things at their face value, if we take a WAW or MLC'er at their word -- and, really, how valuable has THAT word been recently? -- then we're letting THEM define US.

I had someone define me once. He was a Drill Sergeant, in 1983. He told me I was scum, the lowest form of life on the planet, useless to myself and my battle buddies when the sh*t hit the fan and the Russkies came pouring through the Fulda Gap. And he was right -- when the Big Day came, the DrHemlock standing in his starchy green fatigues in the hot summer sun WOULD have been useless to himself and his battle buddies. So I took it.

And thereafter, I defined myself.

Now WAW is trying to define me, like yours is trying to define you. But this time we're fighting on MY battlefield -- MY home, MY children -- and I'm trained. So I don't have to fight the battle on W's terms. Like a good tactician, I'm going to fight on MY terms.

Rommel! You magnificent bastard! I read your book!

[AFWAW]

DrH,
It makes sense what you are saying. I have come to the conclusion that it is a bunch of things that have built up inside of her over the years making her bitter. That coupled with the fact that she had time to think about it while I was not there gave her the courage, for lack of a better word to do what she is doing. I am not letting her define me in my mind. I accept responsibility however for the things I have done and have not done. Does it make the situation any better? No. Does it give me focus, yes. With that I can focus on what I failed on and if given the opportunity with my wife, I can attempt to make it better and if not, I am armed w/ the knowledge in the event I have a future relationship.

The weird thing is with this realization I am less emotional than I was before. I actually feel sorry for my wife in that she is not only to forgive me but am wondering who else she is unable to forgive? That much bitterness does nothing for one's happiness in my opinion.

BTW, after she said last night she wasn't going to bother me anymore, she sent me a job announcement for her work. There is no way I will take a job at her work if she goes through with what she has said. How uncomfortable would that be? I certainly could not handle it.

[PortlandDad]

If you read MWDs definition of a WAS, you can see the "script" that they follow. Woman are usually the relationship temperature takers; they decide when there is enough closeness, affection, etc. When that drops off, the nagging starts, which drives the men away, etc. etc.

The important thing to see if that when the W stops working on the M, they have drawn the "line in the sand", and they are simply waiting for the trigger. It seems like the trigger is most often an A with an OM, but it can be other things too. The "fog" that the WAS is in actually was planted much earlier, and once the trigger event occurs, they are on auto-pilot away from the M.

I do agree that forgiveness is important; but forgiveness is the gift that you must give yourself. Your W will forgive, but not until she is ready to come back. I think the ordering of those events is reversed: by GLA, 180s, etc. we cast ourselves in a better light, which works on our S to have second thoughts, and start dwelling on the positives, which drives them to a desire to try again with the R. True forgiveness follows as you rebuild and strengthen the R. Any forgiveness that is granted right away is likely transitory.

But that is just my opinion

[AFWAW]

Portland Dad,
I think that's why I am more calm. I have asked for her forgiveness and I have forgiven myself. I just don't want to forget what I've learned for reasons stated earlier. And you may be right, any forgiveness given may be in fact transitory. But there has to be a first step. So, I continue to have a PMA, stand up for myself, work on my body, educate my mind and provide a positive environment for my daughter. There will be some difficult times because of this, I know. I don't like that this is happening but unfortunately I am not driving the train at this time. So I will continue to post and attempt to change myself for the better.

[AFWAW]

Ok, my calm didn't last long. I have an appointment downtown w/ my counselor this afternoon so I had to leave work early. Had to drive past my wife's building and felt my emotions coming on again. I thought about my daughter and how she felt last night and about how I feel and it came again in a big rush. I'll talk it over w/ my counselor. I just wish my wife had the courage to first forgive and then try to make this work. I know it took a lot of courage for her to walk away but it will take much more for her to come back. If she could only read my mind, she would know how I feel and how much I care for her. I fear this is going to get worse very quickly with the conversation my wife will have with my D13 tonight. I am so weary. I just want it to be better and to be able to hold my wife.

[PortlandDad]

Be strong, big guy. Most of us here know the desperation that you are feeling. Just make sure that you only express that desperation here: to your W you need to be happy, confident, and acting "as if" everything was fine. In time, you shouldn't need to act, it will be real.

I'm praying for both of our families.