But but but........... here's the thing Jayce. I don't think I want to have sex with him. Hate to be so blunt there, but I really don't. I know he will, that's the problem. HE WILL for the week, then its gone again for a year. I've been there. It will be great for a week, then it goes to less and less, then NOTHING. I can't do that. So Im not sure what to do now.
So, do I force myself, and see what happens this time?? Take the leap so to speak?
OK, I get not really wanting to have sex with him, as in he's caused so much pain he's not a turn on...you're angry....
How do you know he'll want to for the week he's home? In the event he does initiate and ML - more than once- while he's home, how do you know for sure he won't next time? If he didn't for 5 yrs at a time and he does this time, is it possible you've made progress in getting him to realize how you feel? In any case, after telling him how much you want intimacy for these past months, if you turn him down what's the message there?
What if he's read more of the book & hasn't told you? I know all the begging and fighting and disappointment takes a lot away from any ML that happens as a result, but that ML is a starting point. Remember me griping that it seemed like a charity effort, or just to shut me up for awhile? How hard it was to feel turned on because he gave no sign he was going to initiate till the last possible minute & I'd be mad or in tears thinking I'd struck out again? Far from the experiences either of us hoped for, but it resulted in our actually talking about what happened. He was a little more open and he began getting in the habit of thinking about ML again. Doing it enough to remember (?) what he was missing. It was a start.
If your H wants to have sex (Blunt is always good-no misunderstanding) he probably will be worried about how you receive his effort because of the emotionally charged conversations/emails, etc. You have his attention now. Any coolness or turndown from you will shut him down for good. You ever train a puppy? You know how you're supposed to praise any move toward what you want it to do? And in a short time, it gets it & does it every time? But if you yell at it, it never learns anything but to avoid you? Humans are the same way. And both take patience which you can tell I'm not exactly full of. Nor tact either.
Keep telling him you are pleased with his efforts, and that you want him to continue. You are looking forward to ML his next trip home. Tell him how you have dreaded his visits because they only mean frustration and hurt for you and you don't want to go back to that again. Besides the patience thing, there's also your Calm, quiet, non-judgemental tone of voice, the smiles-that are really hard to do but its what'll work. We are so not a turn on when we're angry or scary. (Imagine me w/red teary eyes & runny nose-ewww. Annnnd when I yell I can break windows 3 blocks away).
Like any activity, eating healthy, going to church, working out, it takes time to become a habit. Working together to stick with the program will be easier as you both feel enjoyment again. I know its far from the romance of having a guy who craves you, courts you and sweeps you off your feet, but it'll get better in time and is way better than giving up & scrapping the whole thing. Now that you have his attention, if you do decide to give up or turn him down, you'll probably never be able to try again and who will you be hurting? You may never get answers to why or what or how, but if you get a new start on a sex life together (blunt again)none of those answers matter.
I know it is very hard not to keep thinking "How could you have hurt me for so long?" boy, do I know. But keeping that in mind wrecks the fun you start to have again. Its tough to be the rational adult who knows that having that fun is waaaaayyy better than staying in the hurt funk forever and never having any fun again.
Try to relax, go with whatever happens. If he doesn't approach you, initiate so he knows you're not going to turn him down. Make it easy for him. If it doesn't go well, you will know you did everything you could to make it work. No regrets or what-ifs.
I hope this sounds like the coaching I intend it to be, not harping about your doubts. I know exactly how you feel. Keep at it. If you win, it'll be worth it. A real married life again J
Last edited by Jayce; 02/24/0903:45 AM.
me: 66 H:60 2 adult sons 2 grandsons adult daughter deceased 5/05 me:Part time trainer H: plant suprv.
Yes, I understand fully! But arghhhhhhhhhhhh lol I guess I will let things happen, whatever they may be. Your comment >>>>
"How could you have hurt me for so long?" boy, do I know. But keeping that in mind wrecks the fun you start to have again.
Really hit home, and I guess for me that will be the hardest part. In wanting to start over, I am going to need to let go of the past. Even though I want to rant like a child and demand an apology. I think in a sick and twisted way, I kinda want him to hurt like I did. Which is NOT healthy and no way to mend things. I get that.
I feel like I just graduated..... lol So, we'll see what happens. He's home in 2 days. OH BOY!
Hi, Diane, You ever watch Cesar the Dog Whisperer? Maybe I mentioned him before. He says dogs live in the moment. Every walk is the best walk, every treat is the best and so on. Yeah, an abused dog remembers being hit, who hit & what with, but in general dogs don't have a past. They're happy to see you every time you come home. Glad to go for walks even if they met a mean dog last time. Too bad we humans can't be a little more like that. Every visit home would be a new visit. Every conversation or hug would be a new one. No grudges, no agendas, no planned manipulation, guilt trips and all of the other crappy stuff we do to each other.
Altho you'd like the satisfaction of seeing your H hurt as much as you, remember, no sex doesn't really bother him LOL. More to the point, have faith in the unseen.... he is hurting. His world is unstable right now and he's not sure how to handle it or what to do or what'll happen to his life that he's ordered in a way that's confortable for him. He likely has never seen how a regular marriage works. Only knows about conflict, open war and his own fears as a kid. Young kids often think divorces happen cuz they were bad in some way. Probably fear loss all their lives unless they're told otherwise. Some have no concept of unconditional love.
You know how when you correct someone you're supposed to separate the act from the person. You're a super kid, and if you could just not shave the cat.... break the vase.... swear at your boss :D. Lots of adults have baggage and have trouble just discussing an issue because they anticipate blame, guilt, feel stupid, look for traps and all of that. "I know you didn't do it on purpose cuz you're so nice...." works way better.
Its probably not our jobs to help our spouses overcome their hurtful pasts, but we do have to work around them. A plan to follow that works for me when I can stay calm and rational is to ask; "Am I a source of pleaure or a source of pain?" I suggested that to my H also. After awhile he was able to think before he breathed flames. A rational adult. Yippee! Now both of us can be adults most of the time.
Your H saying he didn't mean to make you feel less of a woman, etc. recognizes the seriousness of the situation. Try not to think about the pain. Evidently it wasn't on purpose, he's just clueless about how couples feel about sex. After all, if he just hears the guys talk, its just a bunch of quick conquests, no mention of intimate connection. Guys never talk about how much they love their partners, how sweet their intimacy is, nothing remotely romantic. No wonder he thinks "its just sex".
For him to get the intimacy connection I guess you'll just have to do show & tell until he feels safe enough to respond. It'll come a little at a time. My H still isn't done w/the first book & from a recent reaction I realize he has a fear of getting caught, literally, with his pants down.("somebody might come to the door!") Um. After 30 years? A little at a time...... things get better....we figure out more stuff... we learn to relax and enjoy the ride. Imagine the potential if your H begins to respond even a little at a time.... since he's never been awakened before. Wow.
With all love, crossed fingers, hope, prayers and best wishes, Jayce
You make your own luck.
me: 66 H:60 2 adult sons 2 grandsons adult daughter deceased 5/05 me:Part time trainer H: plant suprv.
So, hubby is gone now, for 2 months and all I can say is thank God! Not a good thought in my opinion, but I feel that way.
This will more then likely be all over the place as many things happened and didn't happen.
Firstly, no, no ML in this trip home. I am not surprised as I'm sure even if he wanted too, he's to afraid to initiate at this point. And I wasn't willing to initiate. I guess you could say I am emotionally spent! I didn't feel the need to, nor did I want to. Maybe it was an immature response on my part. Sorta saying, I'm done being the one who works. Who knows, all I know is nothing happened in that department.
we talked a few times which turned out to be not good, to I'm not sure. At one point I asked where he was in the book. He said he was almost done. ( hmmmmmmmmmmmm, ) I then asked if he wanted to talk about anything or did anything grab him in the book. He then says this >>> " He is HATES that I am some1 who seems to go head first into arguments...... OR that I will fight for what I believe in. SO, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm THIS is what he got out of the Sexless marriage book???? He said there was a part that tells you not to hold things in. This then lead to 2 days of me trying to figure out what he meant. Because he said he of course had no examples. I then went to him and basically explained myself. In retrospect, I don't think what he said was a fare statement. I also think he doesn't either, but didn't know how to take it back or talk it out.
He sees everything as an argument. Which he avoids like mad. Puts his head in the sand really. Which is sad for him I think. He is coasting thru life.
At another time we talked. I asked what he was getting out of this marriage , he said > Nothing now......... I then asked what he wanted, and he said Nothing! OK, I have nothing to work with here do I??
Where am I, or where are we now? No clue. I had asked him to decide what he wanted. DOES he want to work together or not......... He basically said he doesn't want a marriage that has sex in it, then says in the same breath > There you made me say it. As if I'm the one who made him do it. It was all very frustrating and confusing. I left at that point. Never tried to talk again, just acted normal and 2 days later he left. Gave me a big hug and left. So, hes Im sure thinking everything is fine.
So, hubby is gone now, for 2 months and all I can say is thank God! Not a good thought in my opinion, but I feel that way.
This will more then likely be all over the place as many things happened and didn't happen.
Firstly, no, no ML in this trip home. I am not surprised as I'm sure even if he wanted too, he's to afraid to initiate at this point. And I wasn't willing to initiate. I guess you could say I am emotionally spent! I didn't feel the need to, nor did I want to. Maybe it was an immature response on my part. Sorta saying, I'm done being the one who works. Who knows, all I know is nothing happened in that department.
we talked a few times which turned out to be not good, to I'm not sure. At one point I asked where he was in the book. He said he was almost done. ( hmmmmmmmmmmmm, ) I then asked if he wanted to talk about anything or did anything grab him in the book. He then says this >>> " He is HATES that I am some1 who seems to go head first into arguments...... OR that I will fight for what I believe in. SO, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm THIS is what he got out of the Sexless marriage book???? He said there was a part that tells you not to hold things in. This then lead to 2 days of me trying to figure out what he meant. Because he said he of course had no examples. I then went to him and basically explained myself. In retrospect, I don't think what he said was a fare statement. I also think he doesn't either, but didn't know how to take it back or talk it out.
He sees everything as an argument. Which he avoids like mad. Puts his head in the sand really. Which is sad for him I think. He is coasting thru life.
At another time we talked. I asked what he was getting out of this marriage , he said > Nothing now......... I then asked what he wanted, and he said Nothing! OK, I have nothing to work with here do I??
Where am I, or where are we now? No clue. I had asked him to decide what he wanted. DOES he want to work together or not......... He basically said he doesn't want a marriage that has sex in it, then says in the same breath > There you made me say it. As if I'm the one who made him do it. It was all very frustrating and confusing. I left at that point. Never tried to talk again, just acted normal and 2 days later he left. Gave me a big hug and left. So, hes Im sure thinking everything is fine.
He's a grown man. He told you his truth (no matter how uncomfortable for you to hear).
Where does that leave YOU? What do you WANT? What do you need to do to fulfil YOUR desires?
S&A
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.
Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
Hi, kiddo. Rats! I was hoping he would loosen up a little more in the explanation department.
And you know me, I'd have initiated, then been bummed, I suppose. So all you get is a hug and an admission that he doesn't want sex in his marriage. I'm not surprised he doesn't get anything out of it because he's never there. I wonder if he saw himself as rescuing you...that you'd be grateful for the financial support since you were a single mom. I wonder if he'll bother coming home two months from now if he says he gets nothing from the marriage.
Now you have two months to decide that you can live with things as they are or make a move. Might be a good time for counseling since all of us here have the obvious bias, wanting more intimate marriages as you do. Our advice is slanted to say the least.
You are a young woman with kids doing work you enjoy. Can you do this on your own? You have lots of time to decide whether or not you want to marry again, move to a different city. You for sure wouldn't owe your H an explanation.
Counseling would help you realize what you really want to do. It would also help you discover why you chose the men you did and to avoid making a choice that wouldn't be good in the future. One reason people stay in marriages too long is to avoid admitting they made a mistake. You already overcame that in leaving an abusive man. Good for you! You know what's involved and that it is possible. No one is owed an explanation. If you are concerned about people asking you why and embarrassed to say he never wanted sex, then don't. It's nobody's business. People who are nosy & ask aren't owed an answer simply because they want one.
I get that you're relieved that he's gone back to work. I've felt that way when H goes to visit his bro for a week. But I do miss him. Or at least the best parts of him, like the good moods, LOL.
Even tho you still don't get what's going on in his head, check yours. Make those 2 lists: Better With & Better Without. + & -. It seems like its time to do that.
Have a relaxing week. Take the kids to a movie, go ot with the girls. Enjoy life as if you were single. See how it goes. Thinkin' aboutcha, Jayce
me: 66 H:60 2 adult sons 2 grandsons adult daughter deceased 5/05 me:Part time trainer H: plant suprv.
I had asked him to decide what he wanted. DOES he want to work together or not? He basically said he doesn't want a marriage that has sex in it, then says in the same breath > There you made me say it.
I'm sorry to say this, but it's very clear from the above statement that your husband does not want to work together on solving your marital problems at this time.
You got your answer.
He wss happy with the previous arrangment, can't understand why you are so very unhappy, and considers your unhappiness to be YOUR PROBLEM, not his. Rather than address the issue, he's dragged his feet, denied that a problem even exists, denied that you ever even brought it up before, and distanced himself -- physically and mentally -- from you and the issue for months and years at a time, hoping that you would come to your senses and the problem would just go away.
He's also played the guilt card on you previously, essentially stating: "what kind of slut must you be, for you to even consider leaving him over the issue of SEX!? What will our friends and family think!?"Don't buy into it Diane: it's not just about sex, it's about satisifying a deep and very understandable human desire (I would even call it a need) to have INTIMACY, CLOSENESS, and a CONNECTION with at least --> one <-- other person in the entire world: your spouse. A marriage without intimacy (emotional and physical) is, in my view, a Tin-Man without a heart: a functional robot, perhaps, but without life or soul. That's what you've been missing, and that's what you are no longer willing to live without.
So now, after all of the above, he's calling your bluff, and has put the ball back in your court. All I can advise you is to remain strong, and continue to stand up for what YOU need out of the relationship: your needs ARE valid, worthwhile, and very normal -- don't guilt yourself into thinking otherwise.
You're in our prayers,
Bagheera
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Beautiful, Bagheera. You validated all of us today. We'll all die either having it or fighting for it.
Diane: I am giving you big, squeezy hugs. You must want to scream from the hilltops. MMMWWWWWAAAAHHHHHH! (Big Italian kiss that I reserve only for very important times that are worthy of it.)
I'm sad for you Diane...but I also think you got your answer. If he directly said, even if just in frustration, that he wants a marriage that doesn't have sex in it, then you don't need to know much else.
At the same time, I can't believe he would actually think that? But from what you have described previously, you have a zero-D husband, so I guess a zero-D person would literally never want sex and could somehow imagine a marriage without sex. Weird!
But again, I'm very sad for you....let us know what you are going to do next.
Nor tact either.