My original post still stands. My WAW is still walking.
I see signs of encouragement, but I have to say, I'm discouraged at this point. I feel like we may be headed for a role reversal and that worries me. But I can't keep hanging on indefinitely. I know some people would say it's not that long. I would.
I'm concerned that we're growing too far apart. Too much happening independently and it's driving me crazy. I'm working to detach. What worries me is that I'm not having as much difficulty as I thought I would. I'm sad for the loss of our relationship. I am. It hurts. But it hurts a lot less than it used to.
I'm tired. I've tried to hang on. I have. I've been beaten to the ground time and again and I'm not sure I want to go back for more of that passive-aggressive abuse.
<sigh> I'm tying a knot in the end of my rope and hanging on, but at a further distance as each day goes on.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
I can absolutely understand the concern about growing too far apart. Just recently I've noticed things my H and I might talk about, things we might find funny, things we might do, just feel a bit awkward. To me, that implies emotional distance.
Keep on keepin' on!! I have a conference call coming in. Will check in later.
Me-46, D-21, S15, S13
After many years w/my head in the sand... I FILED Divorced 6/2011
The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
I know she goes to school... I know she sleeps outside of your room. Does she get up and get the kids ready for school, off to the bus/take them to school? Is she home with them after school? Does she handle after school activities (sports practices, music lessons, etc...)? At night, is she involved with their homework? How about if the kids have a game, or an event that you both go to? How is she then? Would she stop for lunch after that with all of you?
How about with you...? What about events/activities that you would normally do/need to do together? Fundraisers/Dinners for school? Dinner w/a couple a your friends that are couples?
Does she still go out on her own? I remember in your original thread you had mentioned she was going out, and staying too late, and you had to set a boundary... Does she still do that?
I re-read everything, and we hear a lot about you and your efforts, but I don't really get her! (Not that anyone will at this point!)
Gosh, wish I was there to take her out, have a girlfriend night, and slap her around a bit! Women are pretty effective with women when it comes to reeling them in, and showing them they are whacked.
Me-46, D-21, S15, S13
After many years w/my head in the sand... I FILED Divorced 6/2011
The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
AJ, I'm starting to get a little ticked at our friend, 22Tango. She doesn't give us any updates. She's probably out having a great time. You're closer. Go check on her, will ya?
Me-46, D-21, S15, S13
After many years w/my head in the sand... I FILED Divorced 6/2011
The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
Tango having fun? I think we should encourage that as much as possible. If I have to go over there, it'll be to have fun and encourage her as much as I can. She deserves it IMHO.
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What is your W like on a daily basis?
I know she goes to school... I know she sleeps outside of your room. Does she get up and get the kids ready for school, off to the bus/take them to school? Is she home with them after school? Does she handle after school activities (sports practices, music lessons, etc...)? At night, is she involved with their homework? How about if the kids have a game, or an event that you both go to? How is she then? Would she stop for lunch after that with all of you?
How about with you...? What about events/activities that you would normally do/need to do together? Fundraisers/Dinners for school? Dinner w/a couple a your friends that are couples?
Does she still go out on her own? I remember in your original thread you had mentioned she was going out, and staying too late, and you had to set a boundary... Does she still do that?
Funny you should ask. She's been changing that lately. I have to admit, there has been progress of some sort. My concerns are no longer that she's on her way to healing; more to the problem is that I'm not sure of my own feelings at this point. I do still want her to heal. I lose that perspective from time to time, but I do very much want her to be happy and to heal. She won't let me make her happy which is frustrating, but I can look around at the others and see that they have it far worse. I feel for them and feel guilty for feeling better about my situation because of them. It is what it is.
She's been paying much more attention to them for the most part (which is a good thing - they deserve more from her). Actually acting like a mother. We have dinner together as a family most nights of the week. She is not home with them after school. Her routine is to be out of the house by 0530 and back at some point in the evening. She'll text my daughter and talk to my son later in the evening at dinner. She'll tuck him in at night because she goes to her cave about the same time to study/talk on the phone/etc. She doesn't handle much in the way of after school activities due to the schedule. I do. I've been toying with forcing that issue more, but with the recent cutback of hours at work, it's harder to push that without being odd. She'll help with their homework more now. Oddly, I think she's more involved with acting like a mother for one of her friends at school who's mom decided now that her daughter is out of the house she no longer wants to be married to her father. To hear her tell it, the parents have been living together for years in an unhappy marriage and the mother is trying to be friends with her daughter which pisses my W off. It's surreal to me.
The kids. She goes to son's hockey games. She rarely goes to daughter's tennis. Working out instead on most occassions. I've been pushing back on that and having her take daughter because I can see how that bothers my daughter that her mother does not appear as interested in her sports. Truth is, I don't think she's excited by tennis so she stays away. She will go to lunch or dinner with all of us. It's tense between us, but she will.
Oddly, she's been more of team member when it comes to parenting lately. I'm not sure why, but I'm not complaining about that.
With me? Nope. She tries to not do things with just me. We have a party coming up for a friend's birthday. We'll both go to that. In the past, we'll go to a party, but we don't cling to each other. I don't expect her to this time either. That's a normal set of things we'd do together. Dinners. Movies. Dates. Vacations. Party with friends either as a family or as a couple. We used to do all of that stuff.
Going out on her own? That seems to have subsided for now at least since I've been back from CA. She hasn't said anything about her trip to a downtown club while I was away but whatever. Not my business at this point now is it? She has stuck to the boundary as far as I know. She may not understand yet why it hurt me that she kept a card from another man, but I've been told that's a difference between men and women and that I should get over it. I am. I remember that it stung, but I don't harbor any ill will about it.
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I re-read everything, and we hear a lot about you and your efforts, but I don't really get her! (Not that anyone will at this point!)
I think she wouldn't bend and therefore she shattered. I think she wanted to release some pent up desire to be unencumbered and the stress of that was really weighing on her. I think we were in a down cycle of our marriage because we weren't spending enough time together. We were taking steps to rectify that when we got the call about the death of her nephew and I think it shattered her. She told the therapist she felt like I had abandoned her and coupled with our difference of parenting style, she felt I had walked away from her so she walked away from me. She's twisted, but that's how she felt. I don't think that's all of it. I think she wanted to taste the single life and keep the benefits of marriage as well. I think its natural to want to blow off the steam, but she got twisted with the death and bottled up grief and the stress and the school trying to make a man out of her.
Her efforts? She hasn't left. She goes to MC. That's about the extent of it really. The rest is focused on her and her schoolmates and running/exercise. She is starting to shift focus to include her old friends and to include the kids more. She's torn on that last bit because I'm around a lot. The kids and I get along very well and they want us back together. That causes her stress. She has mostly stopped the sewage spewing. I won't tolerate it any longer. We talked before the last MC meeting and she told me that she treated me that way so I wouldn't get the wrong idea. I told her I don't get the wrong idea - we live in separate rooms. I think I get that there's a problem. Perhaps coupled with that and with the MC saying that if she keeps trying to kill the marriage, she will eventually succeed, she's stopped most of the BS talk.
She's more communicative in some ways. She'll say goodnight even if I don't. Communication is tense and guarded, but I think to get past that it'll be up to me to share first. That's my instinct on how to build trust at this point. I think I also have to not take any of her crap talk. Last night she tried to get a dig in about how her weekend didn't cost anything and she didn't know how much mine did. I laughed and said next time I'll stay at her parents too. She's worried about money. Whatever.
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Gosh, wish I was there to take her out, have a girlfriend night, and slap her around a bit! Women are pretty effective with women when it comes to reeling them in, and showing them they are whacked.
Wish you could too, but her friends have done that and it doesn't seem to be working out much. She's not listening that I can tell. Not to say she isn't, but I can't really tell if she is or to whom she is listening. I suspect her friends mother is one of the people and some divorced people. She has a tendency to want to befriend people that need rescuing. It's part of it I'm told. She wants to avoid her own issues by helping others or something like that. They'll take the help, believe me.
On my end, I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing by hanging on. I'm confused at this point and it may be because things are changing that I'm having a hard time figuring out what my own emotions are. I think that's happened in the past as well, but at this point I'm so tired I can barely see straight. The meds the doc gave me won't work - bad reactions. I've been sleeping better though because I am not as connected to her at this point. I am still not detached. I don't call or write unless she starts it, but I did make an extra sandwhich and fruit cup for lunch last night so she didn't have to make her own lunch. I did that because I wanted to. I did that because that's part of building the trust. Not gifts. Not flowers. Nothing romantic. Just small gestures from time to time. My instinct says that's a good idea and I'm going with it. My emotions say to stay away and not initiate much conversation and to pull more 180's again. Wish I wasn't sleeping much because it would be easier to 180 that way My instinct says to go further way so I can get some peace in my life and work on me. I am. Now that I can see she is healing, I need to heal as well. I hate to think we'll heal apart, but I don't see that as a choice I get to make. I do see the choice that I need to heal because its killing me. Literally. I need to recharge myself and come to terms with what is going on.
My sit is different in some ways. In others, it's very similar. I think there is a lot wrapped up in all of this. I think if she really wanted to leave, she would have already. If it was a real MLC, she would have been gone. I think she shattered and can't put any pieces back together yet. Well, a few perhaps. She's made some amends with the kids. She's at least worked on that aspect. She's trying to be around me even when the kids are off to bed. I'm not sure I can tolerate that right now. In a strange twist, we've role-reversed when it comes to txting. She has gotten on me twice now about texting people while she's around. It drives her nuts because I'm not paying my full attention to her. Interesting.... That's what she was doing before and has mostly stopped doing it around me or while spending time with the kids.
Like I said, my sit is different and has shown some serious improvements. It has also shown signs of growing further apart which is worrisome and then again not. While I figure things out for my particular situation, I'm finding myself having to detach and trust that I'll either be available when she wakes up or I won't be upset about it. That's a hell of a leap of faith after 20 years (17 married) of putting my heart and soul into her. I know my wife is still in there. I do. I see glimpses. I see more of them all the time. Even as I edge closer to the door....
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Sounds like our situations are very similar. Mine is a little more extreme as she filed for divorce on Jan 9th, but it will take 2 years to finalize if I don't agree.
My wife started to sleep in our spare bedroom on 3/3. It was a "traumatic event" for me, as I was surprised when I went to bed to find out she wasn't there. I didn't handle it well, but got myself back in control after a couple of hours - pursuing, pushing relationship talk, etc.
Just this weekend she said that she felt that after 2 months of searching for a reason to change her mind, she hasn't found one so she feels that the relationship will never work and wants to move out as quickly as possible. Major setback.
I also feel that we are starting to grow further distant. We had gone out on date nite a couple of times since the bomb, but I get the sense now that she doesn't want to do things with me that doesn't involve the kids. I'm not sure what to do either. I've gotten a lot of good advice from good people on my thread. My problem is that I listened to them as well as I've listened to my wife over the years.
Maybe I'm denser than most guys, but it's just starting to sink in. I'm just hoping its not too late.
Stay in there and hang on!
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
I don't think it's too late in your situation either.
It looks bleak, but if you puruse the boards here, you'll see that many of the success stories also looked bleak.
She changed her mind once. She may do so again. In the meantime, GAL. Change yourself.
And thanks for the encouragement. I hope you stay encouraged as well.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
AJ - I looked at your thread before mine, and thought I'd come back to it after posting a quick update. Wow! You really gave me an answer! I'll digest in am. Be well, friend!
Me-46, D-21, S15, S13
After many years w/my head in the sand... I FILED Divorced 6/2011
The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
Update: I spoke to my pastor yesterday. He made a few observations I'm still digesting in light of the idea that not every situation is the same.
I was really starting to go cold vs. lovingly detach. It was comforting to me and gave me rest. However, as he put it, are you sure that's a good idea when you're seeing signs that what you've been working and waiting for are starting to bear fruit?
He mentioned unconditional love. I said I was like the father in the prodigal son story. He countered that if I am, then I should not be wondering about the past at all. The father didn't ask his son if he felt bad or was sorry for the way he treated him. He expected nothing, but gave his unconditional love and welcomed the son back. He suggested I should welcome her back the same way. Hmm....
He also mentioned that completely going away (as I was starting to do) was not a good idea at this time. He did say it several times. He mentioned that I should bring the conversation to an adult level whenever the oppty arose. I think he's right. I should be careful of my sense of humor at this stage.
He also helped me find the encouragement that I was looking for. He reminded me of how things were vs. how they are now. Certainly there has been improvement and change. Certainly we have a very long way to go. Certainly I can make it take longer if I lash out and try to "get even" with her for the things I was holding on to. Still am really. I have to work on that for my own benefit as that is half of what is killing me.
I think in my case, I started to let go because I saw her healing herself. Not coming back. Just healing. It's hard to explain, but for me as her husband I care very much about her health and well-being. Seeing her broken aside from the marriage issue, was and is very difficult for me to accept. I'm a protector in that way I guess. I am what I am. I think when I noticed that she was making changes in her own life - i.e. starting to spend more quality time with the kids, making an effort to stay home and stay awake to hang out with the family, making dinner most nights, not going to her cave to be away from us (me!) and not pining for sunsets and puppy dogs (i.e. deviating from the WAS script a bit - in a testing fashion) and even trying to reconnect with old friends, I think I began to see that I could take a break. Completely. Not a little. I was and for most purposes still isolating myself from her.
Not completely a bad thing, but the pastor reminded me not to go that far. We do need to slow things down. MC has been telling me that for quite a while, but I think I may have a glimmer of undrestanding what that means now. I am also more comfortable with it while I do my GAL on my own.
I was also warned to be careful of the GAL activities. Don't do things because I want to get even, but rather do things I want to do. Same as Mike has been telling people for quite a while. (hi Mike).
All in all, it helped me gain some perspective on my situation. It's not as bad as some have it. It's improving. It's a long way from being resolved in either direction. She hasn't handed me divorce papers and hasn't gone as far as saying that she's not going on the family vacation (son brought it up at dinner and she just looked away during the conversation trying not to answer).
My work is just beginning. On me. I have some things to do that are about and for me. I'm not making a bunch of improvements but rather going to explore some GAL activities that don't involve too much drinking. Or texting at the table for now I'll learn to be a friend and to go slowly around the raw feelings.
I am no longer frustrated by what I see. I'm sad still, but hopeful that if nothing else, she'll at least be able to heal herself. Even if I have to let her go at some point I at least have that.
Take care, AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
