Me and Sandi said the same thing. It's time for tough loving. I feel the same way about D threats you do, that is why I was hesitant to push that way the last month. In my head, you dont play with such serious issues. BUT, in your case -and possibly in mine too although I think I am over that even- it could really shift the power in your M. I think she is so sure you will not force to D that she is testing th waters confident that a last moment "change of heart" of hers would extend her broom to "play". More and more, again and again until you step your foot down.
In my head, and looking at this as a woman and not as your friend, she needs to see a determined Lan. Set boundaries, make consequences known and be ready to enforce them. Difficult I know. Have that talk and see where it leads you. You cant fight a liar, I know. K
That's my take of course. Feel free to ignore and flush...
In my head, and looking at this as a woman and not as your friend, she needs to see a determined Lan. Set boundaries, make consequences known and be ready to enforce them. Difficult I know. Have that talk and see where it leads you.
I told W we need to have this talk tonight, I have got a good idea of what I need to say even if she clams up. Talk calmly with no anger and have a fair and frank exchange. However her mood has already has changed from this morning so it's gonna be a tough one.
Well the talk didn't go too well there were some positives but, pretty much ended up as a shouting match, but it felt good to let off a bit of steam. W turned it into a "Lan is not getting sex and is paranoid about her male friendships" that why we are arguing. She doesn't see anything wrong with having male friends even if I don't know about them.
Overall we hit an impasse but I am now much clearer on how the long term future will shape up, definately won't be together but we won't be rushing to a D, may never D but I now know where I am going, knida feel a weight is lifted off me.
I am sorry. Get some rest. When we are tired things look overwhelming. Did you tell her what you know? Her reaction as of now will be interesting. I dont know what to say. Try to stay calm. xxx K
I didn't tell her all I know, as I mentioned before W will give her answers based on what she thinks I know so I've saved the latest to remind me when shes not telling the truth.
So yes I will be calm just need to get some sleep now.
Good luck with the talk. I know my W still contacts (or he contacts her not sure) the OM once in a while. Of course he lives over 800 miles away so I know they are not seeing each other... How do I know this? I asked her. No need to snoop. If things do work out and when we are in a good place then I will ask her to stop. But until then.. I feel if I do it will just make the "forbiden fruit" more exciting...
You have been so Cool headed with all of this. I get toooo emotional. But I am trying more to be like you. I know what ever happens you will come out alright
take care buddy Doc
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
Hi there Lan - not really sure what to offer here - I guess the doc and K have said most of it - to keep cool...and also K and Sandi have also offered a really useful perspective from a woman's POV...
But I do have this - looks like now, more than ever you have to have a "Lan Plan" - not saying what that should be or look like cos only you will know - but from your position now, more than ever before you need to feel strong and positive, and perhaps now is the time, with a good sleep, or few under you belt, to think clearly how you are going to achieve that - although I'm pretty sure you will have that in your thoughts already.
Many moons ago, post bomb for me - i did think that a "controlled separation" would be positive for W and I - although I never managed it...Lan there's a book out there that i got - called just that I think - I'll dig it out if you want the title, although moving to that sort of stage does require an upheaval and money of course - and I know you are loathe to put your D through anything like that and finances are very tight...it did offer some useful stuff to me at the time though - although as I say I never got to try that approach...
You said though that right at present you don't want to consider D...and might not...although you can't see you and W being together...sounds like you're contemplating some pretty drastic changes though...
This must be a very very confusing and upsetting time - everyone here can understand that - perhaps let the dust settle a bit till after the weekend maybe? and then re-group...in the meantime what? Get strong and show strong? Lan - for what its worth - EVERYONE who has followed along will be rooting for YOU and your D
She doesn't see anything wrong with having male friends even if I don't know about them.
Shirley Glass wrote a book of a similar title. My X also thought there was no harm in having secret male friends. But yet when I married her, she forbid me from ever keeping in touch with my previous girlfriend and made me burn all evidence that she existed. Go figure.
I hope you know that once it turns into an argument, all hope is lost for a meaningful talk. You are better served at expressing how you feel when she maintains contact with other men.
Lan, you have not discussed it much, but I get the impression that your W is the one in charge of when to have sex. Does she do it more as some sort of reward for you or when she wants something? Tool #4 of the bettermen tools (from Hold on to Your Nuts) is - Run the Sex and Romance Departments.
So I take it you are just acting as if you are not married to her anymore. What are your long term plans when you say you know where you are going? Do you foresee yourself dating or talking with other women?
Hi Lan, Confronting her will leads to argumentes and shouting matches. I think we all make this mistake due to our emotional involvement. You do this and you've lost the battle right there. The OP is like an addictive drug.
So how to calmly set those boundaries? I'm reminded of how the cops do it in my part of the world. People break the speed limit a lot. But then one day they get caught. Lights flash, the siren goes on, they are pulled over. The officer smiles, says good morning, checks their background, writes up a hefty ticket, hands it to them with a smile and says 'have a nice day now'. They have the option of having the ticket on their driving record (insurance goes up) or going to traffic school and taking it off their record. Either way they have to pay the big fine. They can plead, deny and fight all they want but the boundary is set. Find a way to do something like this.
(and by the way I am feeling ok today) the answer or the way forward is quite simple and it involves a few DB cliché but they are very fitting. (I'll come to those later).
Lasts nights talk didn't go the way I wanted to, it involved a bit of shouting which is not normally me but it felt good to get a few things out in the open. The negatives that came out of the conversation is W thinks it's ok to have male friends secret or not and nothing is going to change that. I could shout at her till I'm blue in the face but it isn't going to change. The conversation ended when I said you can't suddenly introduce me to Mr X and say this is someone I've known since I was 7 but never made mentioned him before. For some reason she didn't like that.
The positives for me, (and these are not her words but my interpretation), is that if I lead she will follow, but I have to lead all of the time. She mentioned a number of things which pointed to me not leading and getting sloppy and lazy again so I have taken that on board. Another thing is I said we need to talk more, W replied that I always wait for her to instigate talks or I wait for a crisis, (which is probably true). A lot of times I do wait on W and again this is part of me not taking the lead . So despite the shouting I did listen and listen well, all basic DB stuff.
This prompted me to think I'm going about it all wrong, I need to stop chasing W, stop trying to turn her into the perfect wife and making her the centre of my world and just concentrate on me again and turn me into the perfect me. I need to focus on me again, GAL and take back the responsibility for making me happy (where have we all heard this before.).
So that's leads to the long term Lan plan which is GAL and get happy and that will happen with or without W. I am not going to act like we not married cos we still are, and I'm not going to think about dating, cos that would be wrong. But its all got to be about me moving forward and GAL, just as I would have to do if we did split. That's the little light bulb which came on in my head.
Kerry,
W and I are programmed differently I could have sex all days every day given the chance, for W it seems to be whenever she's in the mood, which isn't to often these days and hence a lot of my frustrations stem from this. W used this angle to say that I was paranoid and was always thinking because we weren't having sex she must be having it with someone else. For me I still have in the back of my mind a lot of things that were said during the ILYBNILWY speech that included how I wasn't attractive and was fat, ugly and disgusting. However last night she said this wasn't the case. But yes, part of me is still paranoid.
So at the moment W holds the key to that department and me fighting to get the key or access to that department is a big issue.
