You know girlfriend, in a perfect world you could live what we perceive as the "perfect" mother daughter relationship where you have discussions about boundaries and sensibly discuss rights and responsibilities, consequences for actions etc - but we don't live in that world.
You daughter is 13 and really the skills she has now to discern right and wrong are those you've given her as she's been growing up. She knows when she's pushing her luck and she knows when she's behaving badly. You don't need to have a discussion with her for her to know that.
Please understand - the "getting her in the same room" part is about you - it's not about her. You want to have your say. I understand that - but it's not helpful.
What about if you do a 180 on this and see how it goes. You could say something to her like - "I don't respect the way you are behaving, but it's your life and you need to live with the consequences of your actions- I suspect you know that this behaviour is really borderline kiddo." It might not be as satisfying, for you, but it will put the ball back in her court and she'll need to think about how much she values your respect.
Someone else said earlier in your thread that the more you try to hold on to something or someone, the more elusive that thing becomes - and it's true. The tighter you hold on to her, the more she will struggle to get away.
Alison try to think about your relationship with your mum - the things she did that you found difficult. You might find you are repeating some of those learned behaviours.
I'm glad D18 is sticking up for you - but understand that doesn't vindicate your position, it just reflects on her values - the ones that you instilled in her.
DB them Alison - don't have R talks, do 180s, show them that they are not the most important thing in your life, you have other interests and activities. Soon they'll be clammering to be with you.
Take care, V
V
Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
