Maybe I should be in piecing part 6?

[breakaway]

I don't doubt that one bit Break.

Maybe that helps me understand what she's going through.

Hmmm. I get that..but then that's kind of part of the addiction isn't it? (I mean isn't that kind of like saying, well, I understand if she drinks too much, I mean, I need a few sometimes too. Then you both just drink too much and nobody gets better.) So, how are you going to have a healthy relationship with someone you're addicted to?

Maybe instead of being so focused on her, and her actions, and her thoughts, and her moods, and her motivations, and..her..you started looking at the issues that bring you into an addictive relationship, even if it IS your wife.

I'm not saying that to be judgmental...but because I am working on that myself. And I'm not saying you shouldn't have a relationship with her, I'm saying you probably have to tackle some stuff inside you for it to be a healthy one.

[Hope4us]

I know I need to work on it. And I have been.

I know one of the things I need to work on is self esteem. Of the 4 women I've ever really liked or loved, all of them have cheated on me. Kind of makes me wonder if anyone is capable of being faithful or if it's something I do that contributes?

I know with my W that we were "together" too much. I look back sometimes and wonder if my first W cheating on me didn't somehow make me think that if my W and I were always together then she couldn't cheat on me. I can see how my W could have felt smothered, not because I forced us to do everything together, because I didn't, but because we worked in the same building and had all the same friends and we just naturally ended up doing everything together.

And when we relocated that was only made worse because we didn't know anyone in our new location so we were ALWAYS together. Maybe W's A was almost a quest for independence. From some of the comments she's made to me, I think that was a big part of it. I'd really love to talk to her about it, but until she's ready to talk about the reasons, I guess it'll have to wait.

Food for thought.

[whatdidido]

Lots of good discussion and things to think about. You sound good, Hope. Stay positive and strong.

I think giving your wife time is a good plan, and considering financially it wouldn't help you NOT to give her time, then there ya go. Getting through infidelity in a marriage takes an enormous amount of energy, work, and time; and many do not realize this. If you are committed to your marriage and your family, you can do this. It WILl get better and better. There will be more and more issues to get through. I think when you both get past the "if he/she doesn't do/say this, I'm outta here," you both will progress with time. You DO have to have that relationship talk, though, and she does need to show you that she is working on the things you need her to help you with.

I know about the hand holding thing you were talking about with your wife. Those are those walls, Hope. I still find myself doing it at times with my H. My first instinct is to pull back....I don't want to get hurt....my wall protects me. I pull back. H holds me longer and allows me to melt a bit. Slowly we get better. Slowly, I trust that he loves me. Slowly, I trust that our marriage won't go back to the way it was. Time.

I see why you are not going to call while on your trip. I guess I just see that as so confusing. But, I guess if she isn't contacting you either.....I don't know.....She should be contacting you, and you should be contacting her at this point.

Also, with something going on right now...the secretive logging out of the laptop, etc. I would be concerned leaving her alone. But, I'm paranoid and think I jump to conclusions fast these days....What about having SOME kind of talk...nothing ultimatum-like, but a discussion about how things have been going so far, etc. At least she has that to think about before you leave. ?????

[Hope4us]

I don't know WDID. I'm completely at the point where I could care less if she's planning something with OM or the next OM or whatever.

With the way she's been, I don't think it's something I even need to worry about. If she is talking with OM, it's not A stuff. He's on to his next victim to a point that he wouldn't even spend Thanksgiving or Christmas with his kids so he could be with the next OW. And honestly, if she wants to hook back up with him, it makes my decision so much easier. Would I know for sure if they did get together? Maybe, maybe not. But it really doesn't change anything I'm going to do, so why worry about it?

Does her being a little secretive with the Laptop worry me? Somewhat. But since she could contact who ever she darn well pleases while she's at work, what does it really matter? Heck, I truly feel that it was easier when I KNEW she was wayward than what is going on now. At least then, I KNEW. This recovery (if that's what we're doing) is HARD.

Oh, those walls. I know she has them up huge. And when we're away or she has a glass or two of wine, they drop. Sunday morning was another example. W was at her purse getting a smoke out and I walked up behind her and gave her a hug and her first reaction was to tense up and I just held her lightly for about 5 seconds and she relaxed and then I went out and fixed some coffee and she was fine. Another example. When we were away last Oct and again Valentine's weekend and connected, W had no problem with me seeing her in varying stages of undress, right down to naked. But when we're home and she's got those walls up, she's quite modest. Just another example of those walls holding her back except for when we're not where those constant reminders are. And everyone here thinks I'm stupid, but that's one of the reasons I keep taking her on trips. Not to reward her, but if that's when she'll open up with me and let those walls down, doesn't it make sense that I should encourage those times?

I just think if I don't contact her while I'm gone, it will do more good than any potential bad. Like when I've gone and spent the weekend with S20 and not contacted her. She'll either contact me or if she doesn't, when I get home she's a little distant, but in short order she warms up. So I just see this as a good opportunity, like Pup says, for her to see just what she's missing. And with the cell coverage being so spotty where we're going, I'll be able to delay responding for quite a while if she does contact me.

One thing I did find encouraging. I was just reading on another board (not much work getting done today!) that this guys W finally opened up to him about her A that had ended LAST APRIL! I guess that's another reason I'm trying to be patient. I've read enough stories on the net that sometimes it takes a YEAR for a WS to de-fog. And last April is when my W said she ended it with OM. Not that I'm stupid enough to believe that there's been complete NC since and I'm still concerned about her secrecy, but if financially I'm not where I could do anything about it right now anyway, why not give her more time?

Thanks for sticking with me everyone. I really appreciate it more than you'll ever know.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Yep, that I can afford. We have timeshares at Disney so the room is paid for. We have annual passes for the parks that we bought last summer when we went down with the kids so that's paid for. So the only thing to pay for is the flights (which I got cheap on Airtran) and our spending money while there.

Ahh, gotcha. OK. Sorry for prying; it's really none of my business, H4U. I know you're a smart and honorable guy and will do the right thing by your family financially.

Puppy

[Sara]

I don't know your whole story. But it sounds like the affair is over, but the repair work hasn't happened, and you two are in a holding pattern. Have you suggested that a Retrouvaille weekend might help you reconnect with each other? The website is http://www.helpourmarriage.org. Both Puppy and WDID (I call her Didi) have gone. It is a wonderful way of taking a peek behind the walls that get built up over time.

[Hope4us]

Thanks Sara. Yes, I've asked W 3 times to go to Retro and she's refused each time. "I don't believe in that stuff".

Just like she refuses to read any books, just like she refuses to talk about the A and how it happened and what my contribution was to how our marriage got to the place where it could happen.

She's just one of those people who thinks "it's either there or it isn't" and once it's gone, she feels like there's no use in trying because it won't come back.

I need to quit talking now because I had a pretty nasty trigger last night and I don't want to say something that I'll regret with the mood I'm in.

Going to be a busy day at work, which is good, so I'll check in later.

[whatdidido]

Your very good about stepping back when anger gets ahold of you. I need to learn to do that more often.

Retrouvaille would be perfect for you and your w. We've talked about it before. I know your W's stance on it right now....but, maybe when she feels the hopelessness long enough, but yet wants the marriage bad enough, she will seek something to help.

[Hope4us]

Ok, so the rollercoaster continues, but it's on an up swing so I'm going to enjoy the ride. Although it makes me nervous how she's acting......

I had the really bad trigger Monday night and I think W got that I wasn't in the mood to talk. I went upstairs to watch t.v. pretty early.

Tuesday she was an IM'ing fool while we were at work. I didn't want to cut her off, but this week at work is VERY BUSY. So I told her I was just going to have to go.

Tuesday night at home was GREAT. W was VERY talkative so I just let her lead the conversations. We watched some shows on t.v. and talked about how F'd up the "Bachelor" show was. I was surprised to hear W say she agreed with me that it was all fantasy stuff and how can you know a person after 6 dates and how can they be your "soulmate" after 6 dates, etc. She was agreeing with me on all those points and even throwing in some of her own. I was SHOCKED.

So we went to bed at the same time and......ML. Twice in fact .

So I thought, we'll see how Wed is. If she follows her normal patterns, she'll again withdraw from me once we've been intimate. But she didn't! I was busy all day yesterday and didn't talk to her until late in the day. We were talking about what each of us had planned last night and she asked me out to dinner! So we went, had a good time, came home and had a really nice evening with S16. Laughing, joking, etc.

She came to bed shortly after I had and we held hands for a few minutes before both going to sleep.

This morning she was very talkative when she came downstairs and she's IM'd me a couple times already today. I'm VERY BUSY again today so I've had to break off the conversations (good DB without even trying), but it seems that the withdrawing she has been doing after us getting close has not happened this time.

Of course it makes me nervous. Why now? Why not withdraw like before? Is she finally figuring it out?

So one question I have is, at what point is it ok to tell W I love her? I'm not planning on saying it all the time etc, but I haven't told her I loved her for probably 6 months. Is it a good time to throw one out there or should I keep avoiding that pressure and wait? It was so freakin hard to not tell her when we were ML. And the ML was ML, not just sex, although it was pretty hot if I do say so myself.....

I'll trust everyone's opinions on whether or not to tell her I love her.

Talk to ya soon.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

H4U:

GREAT NEWS!!! That is all positive stuff.

And let me be the first to say, with regard to:

So we went to bed at the same time and......ML. Twice in fact

"Lucky bastard."

(with apologies to Hairdog),

Puppy