"-You think that was the easy way out? That was the hard way out!!"
You trapped him!! See what you did. You created all this!! WTF.. is wrong with you woman!!
Let me make this very clear. Him leaving.. was not a easy choice.
I always knew that. I have questioned.. whether you really believed me.
He did not leave.. to hurt you. He left.. to stop hurting.
In that simple thought.. he thought you were hurting too.
"He couldn't answer that..."
The how was... It was the last option.
The why was.. he felt like he had tried.. "Everything"
"Anyway,although my C kept saying, I need to "get over my issues" about the OW, the past, the hurt etc, she said we made a false effort from the beginning and the OW shouldnt be a requirement and I am making her "strong"."
Did I tell you I like your C?
"She asked me if I am sure about my decision and I told her no because I love him some still (yes I said that) but I am ready to take the risk because I am very unhappy."
Kalni.. take the risk. The one that seems like it will fail.
Put all you got.. out there.
Make the choice.. I want this to work.. come hell or high water.
You may have to "fight" for it. You may get "labeled".
In the end.. it still becomes a part of you.. and who you want to be.
Can you be happy.. with "drawing out" the love?
Can you be happy.. with "fighting the odds?
Worst that could happen.. you look like a "as*hole".
Looking like one.. and being one. Well.. they are just different.
Things happen for a reason.. but it may not be clear.. what those reason's are.
So much of what I read here.. still points to the fact..
You need to step up.. for what you want. You can be honest.. try to not be hurtful.
This stuff is never "easy"
But I would rather see you give a "solid" fight.. than to just give up.
If you don't want to "fight". Just walk away.
The "choice" still involves...
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
It seems as if you are both at the crossroads w/a large decision to make. If you decide to go on, then you know you will be in for a lot of difficult times ahead, and so will he.
If you decide to D, then you are ready to move forward b/c you don't think you can trust H to do his share of the work and/or you've simply reached the end of your patience w/him and need out.
I think it is great he's going consistently w/his IC and you are doing some personal talks w/your C as well. Good for you both. Keep it up regardless of what happens.
As far as your anger goes, that is ok in my book b/c you needed to get it out in order to move forward. Just make sure it is truly "out" so you can move forward w/out the anger.
As for C's suggestion that you forget the past, she's partly right, but I can also understand your part as well. My guess is in time through his IC, the importance of the OW will come out and he'll be given instructions from C to deal w/this issue w/you directly. However, this may be a while before it happens, so you'll have to be able to accept that fact in order to move forward w/H.
Case in point, my dear friend who is a psychiatrist in Seattle told me a story about how a man was in weekly sessions w/my friend discussion how unhappy he was w/his marriage for a YEAR before he admitted to having an affair and hiring call girls. Do you think there was a reason he was having problems at home? It became very clear and once the admission was made, he was able to begin to do some "serious" work on his relationship w/his wife.
Your H's involvement w/OW was done to fill a void in him and honestly, there is a chance it could have only been an emotional affair so he's denying was an actual affair that occured. If this is the case, until he understands that an emotional affair is still cheating on your spouse b/c you've given yourself to another person, he'll believe completely he did nothing wrong and thus he'll see you as being irrational. It is wrong, but in his mind, he'll be in the right. Does that make any sense?
That is what I'm guessing is the reason behind the C telling you that you must move past it in order to have a shot at this. If H honestly doesn't believe he had an affair, he can never admit to it and thus never will be able to see your point of view. I'm afraid the C's right here and you'll have to wait to get what you want concerning the affair until H can better understand what he did and its effects. What can I say except he's a DAM and it will take time for him to "get it."
I know you are disappointed that H didn't tell you he loved you, but in finding out he has a fear of rejection, I'm not surprised. I too have long suffered from a fear of rejection/abandonment, so I can relate w/H. That said, his work w/C will help him overcome it, but he still has to do work in the meantime or he'll be left behind.
I'm encouraged b/c C told you both you can't have excuses if you are going to try and I'm particularly glad she mentioned his using "work" as a constant excuse. If you decide to go for it and both do exactly as she tells you, you've got a good shot to repair this thing and make it better than before.
However, you both have to sign on 100% or it won't work. I know you get that part, now we'll have to see if he gets it as well.
Hi guys, I spent almost the entire time the kids were gone yesterday, reading "just friends" again. It is a good book and reading it again reminded me I am not crazy to want some kind of clarity and honesty. SO, I will insist I want the truth, I can wait for a while, but until then he would have to stop contacting her. Unfortunately the C will be against this and I dont know how he would accept it.
I am mad at the C. She said a lot of things that are really bad. Like "you gave 90% at the relationship, your self esteem was low and that's what allowed the affair" I was like WTF? She insisted the OW is MY problem and get it over with. No discusion about trust, honestly, etc etc.
I have recovered, as the book says, but I am not healed. And I cant heal myself when I feel he still disrespects me.
I will state my needs again. If he says he cant, then...it's done. If he says he will, then I will start over again, this time, do the work. K
Hey M.. I was just going to post to you!... ITH posted this on my thread and I do agree.. but if you want/need the details now from H, so be it.. perhaps at least an admission that it did happen, but leave the details for later?? remember the theory is the R "cant stand" to rake over the A, until you get past stage 2, friendship, 3, romance and reach stage 4 - recommitment? I'm not sure what stage you are at right now, 2, 2 1/2?!
I agree, no matter how you behaved, thats NO excuse for an OW.. that was your H's decision to take the problems outside of the M and you probably didnt do anything 'wrong', your H, like my ex is weak and a woman at work paid them attention and their egos were flattered. Its such a cliche. Herss her post:
"In terms of stage 2, I really think that it's normal for there still to be "taboo" subjects. My take on it is at the beginning of stage 2 it is like a very casual friendship. So, you don't necessarily discuss feelings and deep topics, but things are casual and light. I live with my H again, and we have discussed long-term plans together, but there are still topics that seem off-limits. My point is that these things often take a lot longer than we'd expect, and I don't think the stages are exactly the same for everyone. It takes a really long time to build up to a place where it is OK to discuss what happened. I remember that Jody told Optimistwife (who got her M back) that it was better to just concentrate on the things that were now good rather than bringing up the past and causing her H to feel shame for his behavior. They started moving forward, and making future plans, without having those talks."
Al xxx (if you are going to maybe start over have you thought anymore about 3 sessions with a db coach? You can get H to pay, call it personal R counselling...? Or, just pay yourself, think of it as investment.. if you are D you will have a lower standard of living, if $360 helps you reconcile, you will be much better off financially!)
Hey K, I never bought into the "OW or OM is a symptom". I can accept that things were not going well but ultimatelly, it is a decision to drop your pants. It is a decision made by someone who is weak ... in my opinion. Now, if your marriage is done....then I am not saying to wait for the divorce to be finalized either. I guess it takes time to recover. Like you, I am healed but have not totally recovered. That is a good way to put it.
"I will state my needs again. If he says he cant, then...it's done. If he says he will, then I will start over again, this time, do the work." What I am reading from this K, is that you basically want him to decide......you are going to put your requests on the table and it is up to him to say..Ok., I am in or no, I am out.
"And I cant heal myself when I feel he still disrespects me." I guess that will be one of your "requests". Can you clarify how he disrespects you K?
K, I admire your spirit and goodness! Please remember the following when you do work:
- Focus 100% on the work YOU have to do, not even 1% on what H has to do - that's his BIG problem. Take the log out of your own eye first
- DO NOT ever use the D word again. Its hurtful and makes him insecure.
- DO NOT bring up the OW again. It's must be over and done with. If H goes back to the OW he's toast!
- Its good that you now know what ails your H - insecurity and fear of rejection. You must work to reassure him and build him up to lead you once again.
- Put your trust in God since you believe in God.
What call do I have to tell you all this? Because I have suffered with you and I continue to suffer bigger things and I want you to be prevail.
In some ways your C is right, but I don't think she's expressing it clearly to you. Let me explain, but first off, I am in no way excusing your H's affair w/OW nor am I saying it is your fault.
Like John said, that tact is complete denial and BS. H made a choice and no one forced him to make that choice. That said, here is what I mean when I say that C is kind of correct in her words about OW.
The OW is not your fault, but there were things that happened in the M that made H look and consider OW. Again, it is his choice to leave, but if you take a look at how your actions may have played a role in his affair, you'll be able to get on to the road of healing for you and the road to reconciliation.
See, if you can't stop and reflect on what it was that you may have been doing that caused H to be so unhappy that he started to look outside the marriage, you'll never be able to move forward w/him.
Again, he made the decision, but you can and should use this as an opportunity to examine yourself and see what your role may have been, own it, then fix it.
When I discovered my XW's emotional affair, I read a book called "After the Affair" by Janis Abrahams Spring and it really helped to put it into perspective that although I didn't cause the A to happen, there are things I need to change about my personality and actions so I'll never have the person I love cheat on me again.
For me, it was mostly about establishing proper boundaries and learning how to be more "in-touch" w/the needs of a woman. I'm not sure what it is or will be for you, but I do know that you can use this to grow tremendously if you honestly and critically look at what role you have played in his H.
I also agree w/fb that the OW shouldn't come up again. He can't process it now and it only leads to his becomming defensive. In time, he may be able to own up to it and work w/you on it, but it also may be something that is never brought up again, but the actions change so it will never happen again.
Can you tell him what you need w/out bringing the OW into the conversation?
Rob, you are killing me here!!! Really! OMG! After a year of crucifying myself about ANYTHING and EVERYTHING you are telling me I should stop and examine my wrong doings? Sure, lets do it again ... I gained probably 6 pounds since my wedding day I gave birth to 2 kids and was everyday working 9-5 and then was alone with 2 babies until 11 everynight I wanted to ML to my husband I wanted trips/weekends/movies/fun, laughter I wanted to hear compliments about my cooking, my body, my eyes, my taste, my administration skills, my shrink skills used on his family, my friends' skills that kept our friends close to us, etc etc etc I got tired and resentful I got NOTHING and still begged for anything of the above I DIDNT CHEAT!!!!! I DIDNT LEAVE HIM! I had a lonely life.
Tonight it is over. We talked and he said he has nothing to say. he said I cant make him say anything. He was aggressive and said my interference with his life has to stop.He said they are still friends. I told him to ask his friend to reassure me. If she is such a good friend then why not? He said no, he didn't want to drag her into this. I told him I am done. I cant do it. I give up. He is not my husband. He is a monster. I am done. K
