Since you have the book, I am not sure what your question is? Start LRT now - sounds like a match to me timing wise. Remember it is never too late to stop a D until you sign the papers. A lot can happen before then. Making significant changes now that you can maintain will help you get through this - it wil either work or not.But you will be ok.
Did you read about the stages of a M and have you identified what stage this is? Just to give you a place on the M map and see where you are and why this is happening now. Hopefully will give you some understanding.
What are your questions? Did you read all of this post? Mr L has down well to follow steps and sees some improvement while taking breaks to "freak out here where it doesn't matter".
Check out DB forum and peicing forum just to get an idea of how it works in live time. This is the place to journal, vent, practice saying things and get opinion, advise and support. Just ask for what you need.
Let me know how your W reacts to the changes in the house upon her return. I know you feel good about what you did and you are enjoying the time with the kids. Bet they are excited too! (that'll get to her)
Kassie, Mr. Lost is a real role model. That's why I was wondering if it was LRT time. When I first looked at the book, it seemed like I should "start" at the beginning.
Mr. Lost -- the W's reaction would be very interesting to hear about.
Quick update-Wife isn't back yet. She sent me a text message at 9:45 saying she landed. It's 11:09 and she never called. While it's not late for her to get back from the airport I would have thought she would have at least called me to let me know she's on the road. No matter. But I don't have a response yet. I'll post when I do.
DrHemlock- Make sure it's LRT time before you start the LRT. That should be saved for a last resort. Remember, I've been going through this for three years now and I'm just getting around to the LRT. I can tell you things look pretty grim for me, but I don't allow that to show through. I keep at it. The thing is, I'm assuming your W gave you reasons for the D. By giving you a heads up, she's at least given you a chance to try. Listen to what Kassie said and truly figure out what you want to change. The thing is whatever it is you are changing you have to make sure you're not doing it while watching her for a reaction. What I mean by that is keep at it. As a complete hypothetical, if she told you that she thinks you don't do anything around the house, then you need to start. But more importantly you need to keep doing it, regardless of her reaction. Don't expect anything at first. Trust me, she'll notice. But she's going to think that you are simply reacting to the D and so she may take a step back. But keep at it. If she says anything about it just say "You know what, you were right about me not helping out enough. So I've decided that I should." Then shut up. Believe me, I know. You're going to want to keep that conversation going for better or for worse, and in the beginning it can always be for worse. If she says something, listen to what she says and respond, but do not fall into the trap of arguing. For instance, if she says that you are only doing it because of the divorce, just take it in stride. Of course she's going to think that. But instead of defending yourself in an argumentative way, your best bet is to say something like "Well, I'll admit, you told me you wanted a divorce I was taken back. But I started thinking about it and started to see why you might think that way. So I decided that I should really start helping out around here more."
The trick is, and believe me this is one of my biggest faults, to end the conversation on a positive, even if the conversation is negative. You don't want to reinforce anything she might already be thinking.
She came home and I showed her everything. She thanked me and seemed to be impressed with what I had done. When I showed her the office and pointed out that she could shut the door and still see the kids, she said "now you have a place to study too."
I didn't say anything, but I took that as a very subtle and very positive thing. It shows me in the picture in the future. She was very tired and we went upstairs and she woke the kids up to let them know she was home and I hung out for a moment and then let them go to sleep. Last night I went to bed feeling better than I had in a very long time.
Then this morning it was business as usual. She was on the phone with her aunt when I came downstairs, and when she done she told me that our tax refund had come in. She said we needed to talk about what bills would be paid and how much each of us will put away. So now we're back to dividing everything up. I told her that she could just take my entire half and apply it towards debt. I said the less debt we have going into this the better off we will be. I told it didn't matter to me since I can pay it now or pay it later and I would just assume to knock out as much of it as possible.
I asked her about a bill and she got upset saying that "those are bills that we both accumulated in order to live and it belongs to both of us." She offered to show me the statements if I didn't believe her."
I calmly told her that I didn't think otherwise, I simply wanted to know the total we owed. She responded that I was being accusatory and I, again very calmly, told her that no one was accusing her of anything, I simply wanted to know the total. She told me what it was and I said "okay" and then left to pick up a Rx at the drug store.
A bit later, I was finishing up the kids room and she and the kids were leaving. I asked her if they were coming back because I was going to go see a movie I've been waiting to see. She said they were coming back but that I should go. I checked the times and told her that I was going to go see the film at a theater that I had a gift card for. She told me that I should just go the theater that's closer since I have the money right now and to save the gift card for when I didn't have money. While, normally I wouldn't read any more into it than that, due to earlier conversations, it made me a bit uneasy. Still I shrugged it off and decided to go ahead and catch the flick and not let it bother me. I'm leaving in a few to go see the movie, and it's about 2 hours and forty minutes running time, so that will keep me out of the house until at least 10. I'm hoping to stay away long enough for her to go to sleep before I get home, because tonight is not a night that I want to deal with anything. I just don't feel up to it.
So, in brief, last night I felt as though there was hope. Today I feel that we're back where we started. Don't know how I'm going to handle it all, but I figure handling it right now would not be the best idea. While I can't just keep pushing it aside, I still have over 60 days before she files, and I'm not giving up.
Here's some insight that I have come up with:
It is very easy to lay the blame entirely on her. That is to say that I can step back and say "she's the one who wanted this and whatever comes of it is her fault." However, I also have to take responsibility in the fact that I contributed to the situation becoming what it is. While my wife is not acting like my wife, she <i>is</i> far from pure evil, and I know that she would not create a situation with so much at risk without weighing the decision very heavily. So whatever has lead her to the decision to divorce, it is something that is very serious in her mind. And while she knows the consequences of this divorce, she is willing to accept them just to "move on with her life." So I need to take her decision and rationale very seriously, regardless of how irrational it may appear to me. The problem is that I don't fully understand her rationale and I can't quite get a grip on her reasoning. When we've talked about it, she just says that she loves me but isn't "in love" with me anymore, and that she knows those feelings aren't going to change. She says that she is miserable and that we don't have a marriage and she cannot live like this anymore. I've told her that we can have a marriage, but in order to do so we have to start living as if we are married. She says that she can't do that because she does not see me as a husband and never will. She says she loves me as a person, but cannot see me as a husband. She says that she sees more as a "child" in the sense that she feels that I am dependent on her and I never stepped it up to become a man. When the kids were born (twins) she felt that I didn't step up to the plate and that I let her down. She says that at that point all of my quirks that were once endearing are now the very things that prevent her from seeing me as a husband.
If you go back to the DR book you will see this as the classic thinking of a WAW and how to deal with her, the stitch and your feelings. I really do hear a repeated dialogue between you despite changes. You are responding to them well. It took her a long time to get to this point so just stick to the plan.
She feels defensive, has long standing complaints, and she talks to you like a parent to a child reinforcing her beliefs about your R. Your responses must remain adult like and resisting the temp to act out. Bring her up to the level of convo where she is reminded that you are equals and can deal with things as equals.
The trouble is that she set a time table that I'm already one-third of the way through. I'm not so much worried that I can't change her thinking as I am that I'll run out of time.
However, what do you make of the "you have a place...too" comment? It was almost as if she had let her guard down for a second and spoke before she realized it. I know better than to run with something like that, but I also know that it is important to note small successes as well.
Her overall demeanor has been noticeably upbeat recently (with the exception of today), so I wonder if the medication isn't helping her also.
As far as the repeated dialogue, I agree wholeheartedly. The thing is, I'm not sure how to change it without coming across as either snide,confrontational, or needy. I can't approach it as not being important or else I might be construed as snide. If I object to it I'll probably be confrontational. If I point out all the things I've done to improve it, I will definitely come across as needing her approval and only making the changes for her to stop the divorce.
The philosopher Kant once wrote about why people should leave things in the supernal alone. He argued that God existed because God needs to exist. Once man begins to try to prove the existence of God he opens up floor for people to disprove God's existence. In Kant's theory, atheism came into existence only when people tried to prove an already accepted concept. While I'm not comparing my marriage to great philosophies, I think that philosophy can work in Rs as well. I think when we try to prove how we are changed or better people or point out all of the things that we've done correct, we also open those points up for debate and the reaction we get can often times be negative. When we do things (like the 180s) and allow them to be accepted, instead of pointing them out as "proof" it leaves no point to be debated and must be viewed for what it is.
If I could just get the supposedly "solid" time frame off of the table, I probably wouldn't be so rushed. I could also better consider the separation vs. staying to fight sitch. My wife is not stupid and she knows me well enough that if I go through with the separation as I outlined earlier, she may very well figure out what I'm doing and it could backfire on me. However, I also know my wife well enough that she has the discipline to see it through the remaining time because she's set herself up to almost be challenged into doing it.
Mr. Lost, I think you're doing great. The changes to the house sound beautiful, and I agree, it would help win me over! I love a man who's handy around the house. And the comment, "You have a place to study too" is HUGE I think because she said it when her guard was down....pretty telling I hope. Just stay the course and no more conversations about relationships. Here's a question that might be sort of personal....how is life in the intimacy department? Do you think she still desires you?
nonexistant. I don't think that she does at all. Believe me, for a guy, that is rough. Still, it is my belief that intimacy will return if she returns to the "in love" state. That being said, there are other factors involved with her outside of our relationship that I'm not comfortable getting into on here, but she has some medical issues that can cause her "lack of interest." So that mixed with the state of our marriage has thrown that to standstill.
