Sorry, Dr. H, but I call "bullchit" on that. You can if you really WANT to.
The good thing about DBing is that it's not as fragile as you think it is: you can screw up a few times and still get things right back on track.
The BAD thing about DBing is that the number of those times you get isn't infinite. You CAN'T keep making the same mistakes, over and over (even willfully) and expect it to work.
Time to nut up and make a determination that you aren't going to keep doing this.
Finished DR, and I think I'm going about this all wrong. I've been trying to DB, but W has already said (a) you're dead to me, (b) all I'm doing at C is checking the box, (c) I'm choosing me to be free, (d) even if I stayed for the kids I would be in constant misery, (e) you're just making it worse.
Now that I've completed DR, I think I screwed the pooch there and should have done LRT as my first act.
I'm smiling; I'm being supportive; I'm saying less than she says; I only e-mail if I'm forwarding something from the teachers. But when Michelle writes "if your marriage is dangling by a thread or spouse has already declared firm intent," that's me.
There needs to be some kind of "gauge where you are" tool on this board so that we newbies know where to go.
Okay, so after going through my DR notes, I decided I had to apply some LRT strategies. I can't "go dark," because we live in the same house w/ 2 small children. So I'm going "dim." She came in from her girls' day spa day. "Nice day?" nothing more. I didn't look at her except when I spoke, didn't follow her around, didn't look up from my laptop. When she asked me something, I looked up, replied (2 words for her 5), went back to laptop. Whenever she initiated conversation, I replied. I wasn't bubbly lovey-dovey (oh, how great, what a wonderful day!) or angry sharp.
Just "dim." Short replies. Regular voice.
Then she has the audacity to ask, "Is something wrong?"
To which I replied (correctly) "No, of course not. Just catching up on the news I've missed over the past couple weeks." (Of course I wanted to add -- "since you ripped my heart out!"). I then mentioned a couple of the items that interested me, and went back to reading.
She took D to the mall for some new things. I said goodbye to D and looked right at W and said, "O.k., drive safely now."
And she goes away with this quizzical look in her eyes like "what's HIS problem?"
Is this normal? Does WAW really think there's an answer to the question, "Is anything wrong?" Am I living in Bizarro World?
Much better. Now, you need to be LITERALLY more unavailable -- out of the house more -- with GAL stuff, not just peering up from your computer. You can be upbeat, but you need to be BUSIER.
I'm glad you read the book, and took good notes. Sounds like you've corrected your course. STEEL yourself; she WILL try to suck you back in.
But before I get there, the fact is -- and no 2x4s please -- I CAN'T get out of the house more. My job is 2x week in an office, 3x week at home. That's been our arrangement for 9 years. Her job is 5x week office w/ a 1.5 hour commute.
Now I could hard-core 180 and go 5x week to the office, but it would completely discombobulate our children -- so kid pickup, dinner, karate, etc. is all me -- and I'm not sure up-ending the childrens' lives would get me closer to my goal (always remembering that MWD teaches us to ask if any action will get us closer or further).
Furthermore, because I telecommute to the other side of the world when at home, I hit the sack around 9:30 (to get up early enough to talk during THEIR business hours). So I can't just blow out of the house at 8:15 when W comes home, because I'll be for sh** the next day.
Like the coaches say elsewhere, ya gotta DB, but you have to make it applicable to yr sitch. Not a recipe book.
SO today W takes D to the mall for some new clothes; phones home (pick up a pizza?). O.K. Can you call it in? Sure. (pause) What're you doing? (the S and I stayed home). Playing. (pause) Well, okay, so order the pizza....
And so forth.
But at the table it begins.... "Sooooo." But DrHemlock hung tough, or mostly tough, right up to the point where he would have had to be rude to stay dim -- and couldn't do that in front of two children.
So I just redirected, talked about some work stuff and some phone conversations I've had w/ mutual friends ("did you tell them?" / of course not).
Sounds like you're playing the game well. I hope and pray that you are successful. Keep up the good work!
M-41 ex-W-40 Together--17 years SS-20 D-14 Bomb--2 Feb 09 WAW--6 Feb 09 Officially divorced on 2 Jun 2010!!! ex-W has a boyfriend 8 Jun 2010!!! Off we go into the wild blue yonder!!!!
Strange one last night. After I posted my 11:24 p.m. [I assume that must be E. coast time?], W went upstairs to read kids their bedtime story. I puttered around doing my thing -- dishes, let pup out, etc. Heard a conflict upstairs, went to check it out -- but not get in way of W's parenting. Smaller kid refused to leave bedroom so bigger kid could have own story time. So I took smaller kid in hand, defused sitch, and life went on. After kids in bed, W asks "you going to bed?" Me: Maybe. Haven't thought about it. Then leave room. W putters around.
Now what? I was "dim." I left the room first. But I can't just disappear into the guest room w/o a "goodnight," since we've been talking already.
Remembering that Michele says every interaction has to put you in best possible light (I have a little MWD notebook I keep in pocket at all times, moving from sports jacket to jeans to robe to wherever I am), I take a chance and speak first -- "Hey, if you want to watch T.V. down there I can hit the sack; there's nothing on my plate right now." Not about me -- about her. What does she want/need? Not about pursuit. Just a kindness to the mother of my children.
Pause. Then a baby step. "No. I, um, was going to do some work but, um." Then W asks if I want to watch television show w/ her.
Me: "Sure. That'd be good."
And so we do.
Now we have an L-shaped sectional sofa. W sitting on one part of the L, me on the other. I let her drive the remote (doing a 180!). She's eating some chips, I'm just sitting, watching calmly, happy to be watching teevee.
MWD says you have to pay attention to body language. At MC #1, body language was all upright, arms crossed, staring straight ahead.
Now more relaxed. Then she sort of lies down a bit. Okay, no big deal, right? But -- watch the body language -- w/ her head towards the part of the L I'm on.
MWD -- don't get overenthusiastic. I "don't notice."
But what do you think? Baby step? At least seems to suggest some comfort, right?
(Of course, could be contentment with her decision to drop the D-bomb but.....agh! Don't go negative!!)
For those who are reading this thread, over at "Need a Lot of Advice" (http://tinyurl.com/blvzyw) thread I cross-posted this -- http://tinyurl.com/czg98j
Seems to bear some on my sitch as described above -- maybe yours too. I think what I need -- right now -- is patience. Patience and a quiet mind -- what the Buddhists call "right thinking." Because I have a tendency to go negative in my mind, and if you expect the worst you get the worst.
Dude, you are waaaaaayyyyyyyy too enmeshed with her every move. This is NOT detachment as MWD teaches it. What's next, taking her hourly blood pressure readings?
This isn't detached, it isn't dim, and it isn't going to work -- IN MY OPINION. She needs to miss you, and know that you're not "okay" with her decisions. What SHE is trying to do is the opposite: she needs to know that you're okay with everything, to relieve her guilt. In my opinion, that's what she's trying to do.
Just my observations, and I'm not trying to discourage you. I just don't want to see you set yourself up for more disappointmenet.
Fair observations, Puppy. Now you see, if you and me were M, we'd be having one of those unsolvable debates over what something "really" means here, wouldn't we?
Let's break it down a bit -- I'm pretty certain we're not reading things (in MWD) the same way. Here's my POV:
I'm going to refer to p. 128 in DR, under "GAL":
* stop acting as if you're a victim. Check * immediately start doing things that are out of character. Check * become more upbeat in your partner's presence. Check * appear pleased w/ yrself and yr own life. Check * pull back and wait to see if yr spouse notices. Check
Nothing I did last night violated any of those precepts. As to the body language, both DB and DR repeatedly talk about observing it. Does it mean she's on her way home? No. Does it mean I think this will all be over tomorrow? No.
But 2 weeks ago she couldn't stand to be in the same room as me. Ate her meals in the dining room or at the sink whenever I was at the kitchen table. 1 week ago at MC, C started out by saying C wished there was a video of us coming into the C room because it could be used in training programs as an example of 2 people totally at odds.
Now she joined ME at the kitchen table (maybe she won't today -- it's on her, not me -- can't control it).
She was relaxed enough to ask me to join HER at the teevee (maybe she won't be tonight -- it's on her, not me -- can't control it).
You might be right -- she might be trying to massage her own guilt -- it's on her, can't control and don't want to know. Whatever works for her.
But, referring to p. 130 (Step 5: Monitor) in DR:
* Be loving in return but not overly excited or enthusiastic. Check. * Accept some invitations but not all. Check.
So I'm monitoring. AT A MINIMUM, normal human comfort in each other's presence means to me that, post-D -- if that's the way it goes -- there's a hope that we won't be Hatfields and McCoys with the children in the middle.
On another thread someplace, someone (almost certainly a guy) suggested that one be a "patient predator." What does a predator do? Watches and waits and reads for signs of comfort in the prey.
Watching and waiting. I'll pounce much later. Maybe. Or maybe not.
