An Update from Superstar!

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Vicky, this is how I put it to another poster back in my "Chocolateeyes" days, about the way it was put to me by the guy who was helping me:

Cadesmom,

Taking care of my boys -- and continuing to be the best dad I can be to D20 and D18 -- has been, and will continue to be, my priority. Followed by being the best "Choc" I can be.

NOP told me something very early on in this, on a night when I was feeling totally overwhelmed by how LONG this was going to take, and in one of my self-pitying, "I can't do this" moods. He said "if you do what God is asking you to do in any given situation, on any given day, and in any given decision, and push thru it, one at a time, then that's all you can do and you will have done the right thing."

That was awesome advice. I used to operate from a standpoint of "How will Mrs. Choc. react to this? How pissed off will she be, and then how miserable will that make ME feel?"

Now, I go by "What is the RIGHT thing to do here?"

VERY liberating. And much healthier.

Choc.

[vickyd]

Thanks guys. Oh so much to learn and who better to learn from than from a bunch of men. I swear I have so much to learn. I read the book "Why Men Love Bitches" - I know bad title, but great book!! It really is all about standing up for myself. The book talks about keeping my dignity and I think I have lost that along the way going along with H's program for so long. Glad to find this site.

[MrBond]

PDT,

I have to disagree with you on that one. These posts are also filled with stories of how being nice has changed the spouse's behavior. In fact, isn't that one of the principles of DB? Once you show a nicer and non-confrontational side, the spouse has no one else to get mad at and looks in at themselves.

Now whether or not they decide to continue with someone else or return is up to them. In my case, my W actually calmed down enough to come home.

Just establish boundaries of what you will and will not tolerate and live through that. Not all of the stories of Going Dark are gloom and doom. It just comes down to what you're willing to do to stay married and if that's what you really want.

[vickyd]

Thanks Stuck for sharing the other side. Great discussion!! I do think that standing up for one principles is important though.

[Superstar]

PDT,

I have to disagree with you on that one. These posts are also filled with stories of how being nice has changed the spouse's behavior. In fact, isn't that one of the principles of DB? Once you show a nicer and non-confrontational side, the spouse has no one else to get mad at and looks in at themselves.

Now whether or not they decide to continue with someone else or return is up to them. In my case, my W actually calmed down enough to come home.

Just establish boundaries of what you will and will not tolerate and live through that. Not all of the stories of Going Dark are gloom and doom. It just comes down to what you're willing to do to stay married and if that's what you really want.

Puppy is a big boy and can speak for himself, but where did he say he wasn't nice? You can stand up for yourself and still be nice.

Also, I'm sorry if my story seems to be doom and gloom. It was not my intention. I'm not gloomy! On the contrary, I am better than I have ever been.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

PDT,

I have to disagree with you on that one. These posts are also filled with stories of how being nice has changed the spouse's behavior. In fact, isn't that one of the principles of DB? Once you show a nicer and non-confrontational side, the spouse has no one else to get mad at and looks in at themselves.

Now whether or not they decide to continue with someone else or return is up to them. In my case, my W actually calmed down enough to come home.

Just establish boundaries of what you will and will not tolerate and live through that. Not all of the stories of Going Dark are gloom and doom. It just comes down to what you're willing to do to stay married and if that's what you really want.

I don't entirely disagree, Stuck. I would make a distinction about defining "nice" though.

GOOD:

- Being cheerful
- Being upbeat
- Being civil
- Being courteous
- Demonstrating kindnesses toward others for her to see (or to hear second-hand about)
- Doing small acts of kindness for her (but not too many)
- DOING ALL OF THESE BECAUSE THEY ARE WHO YOU WANT TO BE, AND THEY ARE "THE RIGHT THING TO DO"

BAD:

- Being needy
- Being grabby
- PURSUING
- Going "melty man" on her
- Overdoing the acts of kindness (ex: cleaning the entire house like a madman, running around trying to please her by being Mr. Perfect)
- Doing anything that directly enables her affair (an example might be "I don't want to stop paying for her cellphone, even though she uses it to call and text message OM, because I don't want to be "mean")
- DOING ANY OF THE THINGS ON THE "GOOD" LIST ABOVE FOR THE PURPOSE OF LOOKING FOR A REACTION OR EVEN A TURNAROUND FROM YOUR WAYWARD WIFE.

Short Version:

"Nice" is good; "pursuing" is bad.
"Friend-LY" is good; "being their best friend" while they are opening having an affair is bad.

Puppy

[gucci loafer]

I ask her to re-consider MC. She refuses. "I'm done...I'm pretty sure I never loved you and I'm positive I don't love you now!". She says I just need to "get over" OM already. I give her two choices: Respect this home and stop contacting OM while we are still married, or leave. She chooses #2 and packs up her clothes and leaves for her parents'(10 minute drive). She is pissed.

This is where you went in the wrong direction. You shouldn't have given her a choice. She had already told you that she doesn't love you and what she had decided. You didn't listen. You should have shown her how well you heard her by immediately saying something like this"
"Since you feel that way, then here is what I have decided, you need to pack up your clothes and leave."


Strong.. but nice....

9/28: I'm served at work with D papers. Turns out she had consulted a L on 8/21, prior to the bomb. She had the L working on D papers before she even dropped the bomb.

See? She had already decided. You did the right thing by forcing her to quit cake eating.

10/1: GAL begins. 180s begin.

10/4: I invite her over for her favorite dinner (I'm a good cook) in an attempt to reduce the open hostility. Two minutes before the entree is served, her phone rings...OM...she actually answers and has a conversation standing not 10' from me and S7. "I will not have you disrespect me, our home, and our family...you need to leave. Now." On her way out I tell her that when she is willing to work on M, that I will be here, but as long as OM is in the picture that she needs to limit contact to D or child matters.

Another tactical error here. The 180 should have been to leave her alone and only communicate with her about "business or family matters" with a matter of fact attitude. Inviting her over to dinner after what she has done and what you told her is nothing more than pursuit. Pursuit does NOT work. You can't earn her love and respect back by telling her she can't take a phone call from the OM, while you are inviting her over to dinner KNOWING she has OM. You are communicating to her that you will still be there for her and invite her over while she is having an affair, but by golly you will set your boundaries that she can't take a call from him while she is with you. Don't you see that you are sending conflicting messages about your boundary?
You should not have invited her to dinner after you stood your ground and told her to move.

10/5-Today: I am 62 pounds lighter. GAL continues for ME. 180s are not 180s anymore, they are habit. Dark is a way of life, but she probably gets as much out of it as I do as it allows her to reduce some guilt. We have probably spoken 10 words since October, which considering we have 2 kids, it is pretty dang dark. Not once have I seen any glimmer of hope from her, no emails, no texts, just POOF! she was gone. I said before it feels more like my wife died rather than a D and this feeling still stands.

You can't see it or feel it, but this is the smartest thing you have done. DO NOT FOOL YOURSELF.. She IS thinking. Hold the line on this. Let HER do the wondering if SHE has screwed up. This was a very smart thing for you to do. Stick with it.

So desperate is she to run away, she has given up claim to pretty much everything. She is leaving our ~500K estate with $2500 cash and a formal dining set. I keep the house and everything else. Custody is 50/50. I only pay her 20% of the difference in our salaries for CS. My L says take it and run...let her use this screwing as a lesson for her next D.

Dark helped me control my emotions, but it really didn't do anything for my R. I know that while she is involved with OM that there is really nothing to be done anyway, but sometimes I wonder if dark only served to push her further away. Either way, It had to be done for my sanity and emotional health.

Nope. Dark was the correct choice. By dark, I mean that you will not contact her. Let her make the next move. It is crucial.

My 18th anniversary is on the 16th and I think that will be a hard day for me but we shall see. It's been hard for me to not backslide, but I haven't and I am proud of that.

You should be proud. You are now doing the correct thing. She can't respect you or love you if you don't stand strong. Women are attracted to strong men. You are showing strength. Don't worry.. She now knows and feels that. The clock is ticking for her. She needs to wonder if she has lost you and wonder if it is too late. She could be going back and forth with those very thoughts as we speak. Leave her to her thoughts.

[Dudess]

I moved close to her and cupped her face in one hand while I said softly (close enough to kiss her) "I'm sorry, but you are going to have to leave."

"Now?"

"Right now"

Superstar, I understand why you asked her to leave, but frankly, the way you did it sounds creepy and frightening to me.

Why did you move in close and cup her face in your hand? Why not just maintain your physical distance and ask her to leave?

In her shoes, I think I would feel physically threatened.

[Superstar]

I moved close to her and cupped her face in one hand while I said softly (close enough to kiss her) "I'm sorry, but you are going to have to leave."

"Now?"

"Right now"

Superstar, I understand why you asked her to leave, but frankly, the way you did it sounds creepy and frightening to me.

Why did you move in close and cup her face in your hand? Why not just maintain your physical distance and ask her to leave?

In her shoes, I think I would feel physically threatened.

Looking back, this was "my" goodbye. I let her go right then. A final kiss without the kiss if you like. It was selfish but I don't regret it.

I'm a big guy (6'4"), but I have never raised my voice, much less my hand to her. I guess this is all about context.

It sounds a lot more creepy than it was.

[Superstar]

I ask her to re-consider MC. She refuses. "I'm done...I'm pretty sure I never loved you and I'm positive I don't love you now!". She says I just need to "get over" OM already. I give her two choices: Respect this home and stop contacting OM while we are still married, or leave. She chooses #2 and packs up her clothes and leaves for her parents'(10 minute drive). She is pissed.

This is where you went in the wrong direction. You shouldn't have given her a choice. She had already told you that she doesn't love you and what she had decided. You didn't listen. You should have shown her how well you heard her by immediately saying something like this"
"Since you feel that way, then here is what I have decided, you need to pack up your clothes and leave."


Strong.. but nice....

9/28: I'm served at work with D papers. Turns out she had consulted a L on 8/21, prior to the bomb. She had the L working on D papers before she even dropped the bomb.

See? She had already decided. You did the right thing by forcing her to quit cake eating.

10/1: GAL begins. 180s begin.

10/4: I invite her over for her favorite dinner (I'm a good cook) in an attempt to reduce the open hostility. Two minutes before the entree is served, her phone rings...OM...she actually answers and has a conversation standing not 10' from me and S7. "I will not have you disrespect me, our home, and our family...you need to leave. Now." On her way out I tell her that when she is willing to work on M, that I will be here, but as long as OM is in the picture that she needs to limit contact to D or child matters.

Another tactical error here. The 180 should have been to leave her alone and only communicate with her about "business or family matters" with a matter of fact attitude. Inviting her over to dinner after what she has done and what you told her is nothing more than pursuit. Pursuit does NOT work. You can't earn her love and respect back by telling her she can't take a phone call from the OM, while you are inviting her over to dinner KNOWING she has OM. You are communicating to her that you will still be there for her and invite her over while she is having an affair, but by golly you will set your boundaries that she can't take a call from him while she is with you. Don't you see that you are sending conflicting messages about your boundary?
You should not have invited her to dinner after you stood your ground and told her to move.

10/5-Today: I am 62 pounds lighter. GAL continues for ME. 180s are not 180s anymore, they are habit. Dark is a way of life, but she probably gets as much out of it as I do as it allows her to reduce some guilt. We have probably spoken 10 words since October, which considering we have 2 kids, it is pretty dang dark. Not once have I seen any glimmer of hope from her, no emails, no texts, just POOF! she was gone. I said before it feels more like my wife died rather than a D and this feeling still stands.

You can't see it or feel it, but this is the smartest thing you have done. DO NOT FOOL YOURSELF.. She IS thinking. Hold the line on this. Let HER do the wondering if SHE has screwed up. This was a very smart thing for you to do. Stick with it.

So desperate is she to run away, she has given up claim to pretty much everything. She is leaving our ~500K estate with $2500 cash and a formal dining set. I keep the house and everything else. Custody is 50/50. I only pay her 20% of the difference in our salaries for CS. My L says take it and run...let her use this screwing as a lesson for her next D.

Dark helped me control my emotions, but it really didn't do anything for my R. I know that while she is involved with OM that there is really nothing to be done anyway, but sometimes I wonder if dark only served to push her further away. Either way, It had to be done for my sanity and emotional health.

Nope. Dark was the correct choice. By dark, I mean that you will not contact her. Let her make the next move. It is crucial.

My 18th anniversary is on the 16th and I think that will be a hard day for me but we shall see. It's been hard for me to not backslide, but I haven't and I am proud of that.

You should be proud. You are now doing the correct thing. She can't respect you or love you if you don't stand strong. Women are attracted to strong men. You are showing strength. Don't worry.. She now knows and feels that. The clock is ticking for her. She needs to wonder if she has lost you and wonder if it is too late. She could be going back and forth with those very thoughts as we speak. Leave her to her thoughts.

Ahh hindsight!

Yup, I agree with everything you said Gucci. Everything.

Puppy told me. Phoenix told me.

The thing was, I JUST DIDN'T GET IT until this moment in time. The phone call from OM put the steel back into my spine and I resolved that I could not live as a cuckold any longer.

I don't know if she loves me anymore or not, but I DO know that she respects me. Throw in the fact that I can respect myself again and I think it is a pretty good bargain.