Unconditional Love 3 (mmf)

[Cinderellaman]

Hi MMF !!!

How are you ??

Mishka, if I may join in...you are not a failure, but I do understand how you would think you were...but believe me, you are NOT ! We all have te capacity to make choices in life, and we all make our OWN choices...our spouses decided to leave, that was THEIR choice, ours is to choose what we do with that !!!

Take care sweety !

[missmyfriend]

Hi Cinders! I am about to post about how I am doing. I'm not sure.

And thanks for jumping in their about Mishka!

[missmyfriend]

I am having such a tough challenge with an issue that came up again last night. I am extremely emotional -- hurt, depressed, feeling betrayed, and believe it or not love and hope.

If anyone has followed my sitch, you would probably know that my W left 2 1/2 years ago, leaving me with our children and nearly all of our material possessions. We were all devastated and shocked. For me, I knew she said she was going to leave 2 months prior but I never thought she would really leave. My children, on the other hand, thought we would always be together. They thought mom and dad, although far from perfect, were friends and in love. Our world fell apart.

For the next week, we all cried. We mourned as if she had died. The pain I felt personally for my own loss was nothing as I saw how much pain my children felt.

Over the past 2 1/2 years, we learned to go on with our lives without my W being a mainstay in every facet of who we were as a family. The kids learned to cope without her, for the most part, and I took care of virtually everything. When their mom would get together with them, it was more like an aunt or good friend of the family rather than their mother.

I didn't want them to lose that relationship but it wasn't under my control. I could, and did, remind them that she is their mom and was that awesome person that was with them almost every day, taking care of them from the time they were born, loving them through everything. I didn't want them to only focus on what happened since she left and remember her for the all of the good things she meant to them.

It has been equally hard on all of my children. I have heard about how hard it is for my sons but even more challenging for my daughter. I disagree (to an extent) that it is harder for a girl than a boy to lose their mom. Yes, girls need that relationship with another woman and to know how to develop and nurture but I think boys need to have their mom to see how a man should interact with a woman -- how a husband should treat his wife and vice versa. They have their father for learning how to be a man but they need their mom for so much else; things that I cannot even comprehend on how to provide. No matter what; children need both a mother and a father. There are no substitutes. It doesn't mean that children cannot grow to be "whole" and excellent people but there is no replacement for a parent. There is a hole that is left that cannot be filled.

And now to what is causing me so much grief and turmoil.

A couple of months ago, my D had asked her mom if she could stay with her every other week. Up until a couple of months ago, our D would typically stay with me instead of spending every other weekend with her mom (as her brothers would). Our D asked her mom if she could spend every other week with her. My W was more than willing to do this and asked me if I would support her with this change.

I was conflicted because my W works overnight four nights per week. She works Sundays, 4pm – 6am (usually), and Monday through Wed from 8pm until 6am. I explained that, while I think the two of them spending more time together is a great idea, I don’t think it is wise to allow our D to be by herself so much, especially overnight. I consider it dangerous and unnecessary.

I recommended two alternatives: Either drop our D off at my house when she leaves for work and our D can take the school bus to her apartment the following day or have our D every week from Thursday (after school) until Sunday. Neither my W nor our D liked either suggestion. Instead they said she wanted consistency at one place for a week instead of being shuttled back and forth plus to spend more time together. I asked how our D was spending more time with her if she was at work. I did not receive a good answer. Instead I was told that our D was mature enough to be on her own at night and that there were neighbors that could help and that I live close by.

They weren’t happy with me being firm about this. My D came home that weekend and pouted about my decision.

I will say that my D is very mature in many ways but is a typical teenager that overstates her preparedness to be an adult with a lot of responsibility. In some ways, she is very irresponsible (but probably not more than others her age).

After a couple of days, my D got over it and did not deny that part of the excitement about staying at her mom’s place was a feeling of independence when her mom was gone.

I thought everything was fine until last night. My W called me up and said our D wanted to revisit the idea.

We had the same discussions with my W including our D in the conversation. I did not change my thoughts on this, even stating that I want to say yes because I want to help them with what they want but I don’t see a benefit with our D being alone so much. My D added that she will be going off to college in a couple of years and will be on her own. I disagreed about her being on her own by saying that she will have a roommate and live on a floor surrounded by other girls at school. I said there is safety in that situation that doesn’t exist when she is at her mom’s apartment by herself. I also added that she will have 2 years additional maturity and experience.

My W looked very upset with me. She said that we always agreed that the kids could choose who to live with and that the ultimate decision should be up to our D. I agreed that our children should be able to live with the parent of their choosing (although I said the kids should stay together, if possible) but when it comes to being “alone”, we, as the mom and dad, should decide what is best.

I asked our D to leave the room because my W, I felt, overstepped and put me in an awkward position, giving our D more power than she should have over this decision.

When she left the room, I lost my cool and told my W that I have kept my mouth shut about many of her choices for over two years and how much she has hurt me and the children. I added about the possible PE and she denied it. I repeated that it did happen. She denied it again. (Regardless, it was an extreme EA that prompted her to leave).

I told her that she left everything including all expenses. (In our divorce, she doesn’t have to pay anything including child support – all she has to pay is half of the out of pocket medical and dental expenses, which she still hasn’t yet)

She began to say how condescending I have always been and that it is probably best that she not have our D because she has always felt like if something happened to our children while in her care, I would always blame her.

I stopped being stupid and said I don’t want to argue anymore. I added that I agree with her about how I used to be and that I did that out of fear, feeling like I wasn’t in control. I told her that I used to think that I loved her and, while I did love her, I didn’t really know what it meant to really love someone. In my mind, I was thinking selfless and unconditional but I didn’t say that. I did tell her that if she knew how I felt about her and the kids, she would never be concerned again.

I told her that I am concerned about our D because W will be at work and not with her. I said when she is with our D, I have little concern. I know that D is safe. With D being by herself, I won’t be there to protect her. W said that the apt is safe and she has never been accosted. I said that our D is not her and is only 16. People will be aware of when W leaves and D is alone. She feels I am too overprotective.

When our D came back in, she was crying and apologizing for causing my W and I to fight. I told her that it wasn’t her fault and it wasn’t her mom’s fault. I explained that I love them and am only concerned for their safety.

I said that I will have to have faith that she will be fine. She asked if I was saying it was okay. I explained that I believe in both D and W. I explained that, while I still do not think it is a good idea, I will support both of them in their decision.

I said that D must call me immediately and anytime there is even a minor issue when W is at work. And I added that D must keep her cell on and available. W added that she must answer the home phone as well.

I told my D that I always am concerned for her safety and I said (in front of W) that I am always concerned for the safety of her mom and that they are both important to me.

I had to leave to go get the boys from scouts so the conversation was fairly short after that.

The boys, I admit, are a little disappointed. As much as they all get into each other’s hair, I think it will be a tough transition not seeing their sister as much. I am also concerned about the emotional impact on the boys, feeling like there is a preference by their mom for their sister.

I will keep a close eye on them on how they are reacting.

I know I made some mistakes. I shouldn’t have lost it. On the other hand, my W is aware of how I feel and that I still love her. She also admitted that she didn’t think the changes in me are real and she is concerned about allowing me too close to her. She mentioned the emotional aspects scare her.

I have my opinions on this but I have no idea if they are accurate or even relevant.

Any opinions?

[ACJ]

MMF,

Firstly you have my sympathy b/c I too am living with my children split between uni, my H and me. There is a possibility that in the near future I may not have any of them (thier choice) and it is tearing me apart. So (((((((((hugs))))))))

Secondly you DID NOT make any mistakes IMHO you just tried to do what you feel is right for your D16. I only wish I could say the same about my H.

You are a very special man. Never forget that

[plentyhope]

MMF, I think you should read Ed Wheat's book "How To Save Your Marriage Alone". Very easy read and biblical, and it will give you some very good pointers on how to win her back. It's a very thin small book too. And in addition, check out "The Love Dare" book and "Love & Respect"!!!

As far as you daughter goes, I think you did great in letting her and you W have their way. It shows that you are willing to take their wishes into consideration.

[Cinderellaman]

((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))

Oh sweety, I know how difficult this must be for you !!! You have been a fantastic father and you have done so well in your inner soul search !!

I am sure that this time you will do what is right again...

What I do think, is that she unveiled a bit of the pain by telling you how she felt that you always were condascending towards her. I'm not saying your were, but it is how she sees it...time to validate and listen, I think.

Oh sweety, you have my prayers and I hope your kids remain in one house, yours for now. I can imagine how hard it would be on the boys...

Take care big bro, listen to God, and pray !

[missmyfriend]

ACJ
My heart is breaking for you about you and your kids. Last night, I had thought about that possibility for me since I know how much the boys miss their mom. I can't blame my D or my two S. I miss her too! I wish I could go stay with her.

I pray that my D knows how much I love her and that she can always count on me. And thanks for what you said about me.

PH
I have two of the three books and I am waiting on The Love Dare to arrive from Amazon. I am glad you mentioned them because it is time to re-read and apply them.

It is so hard to let my D and W take this risk. Maybe I am blowing it out of proportion. I just get very concerned when a teen is left on their own consistently.

I do think that my D can be a positive influence on my W.

Cinders
Cinders, she was right. I have been condescending and opinionated many times in the past (and it is challenging to just keep my opinions to myself even now). Even though I do think it is a mistake to allow our D to spend so much time on her own, I have to trust them.

Is it more important that I have to be right, only to lose what is truly important to me?

[plentyhope]

I do think that my D can be a positive influence on my W.

MMF, I agree with you. God can use this, just as with everything else.

[mishka422]

True, but I see so much I did wrong over the years that I now know was my fault. Too much taken for granted. Oh well, no going back, no fixing things but I don't care to be reminded of it!

Hope you enjoy the movie.

[confusedinpa]

I am taking the advice of a person who I consider very much my mentor when it comes to faith. He has been recommending the book Fireproof even if it has no impact on my W.

My WAW and I just watched it this weekend together. It took 2 nites as she couldn't stay awake to watch it all in 1 sitting.

She cried at the end and then got angry.

You can read the details in my latest thread.

Not sure if this is the normal affect it has on a WAW. I don't think it helped my cause.

Relative to putting the Love Dare book to practice, it sounded like I had done pretty much what was shown in the movie. I'm going to pick up the book even though my wife has decided that after 2 months of trying to find a reason to change her mind, she just doesn't think a relationship between us will ever work....

I think she's going through a mid-life crisis. I'm sure if she was happy in our marriage it would have been more workable, but she wasn't so it's not.

I'm really lost in what to do in my situation now.....