I am actually a bit stuck in this general situation. I understand my W's emotions and feelings about SIL and the accident, and agree with her completely that leaving him on the counter was egregious and unforgivable. I have never disagreed with her whenever she has said things to this effect.
At the same time, I can't disown my sister for what was an accident (a stupid, unbelievable thing to do, but still an accident).
So I have to either reject my sister and turn down her offer (which was kind of a peace offering to me and a good way for me to get out and do something I enjoy), or hurt my W by spending time with my Sister.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
I think you are 100% right. Your sister made a mistake, your wife has every right to be mad. But she's your sister and the other is your wife. You are in the middle and doing the right thing as far as I can see. My pediatrician said it the best to me as a new mommy, "Don't worry, they're pretty hard to kill."
So I have to either reject my sister and turn down her offer (which was kind of a peace offering to me and a good way for me to get out and do something I enjoy), or hurt my W by spending time with my Sister.
Okay, well that is better understood since you put it like that. So, what did you sister think when you told her that your W would not be going along? Had you sister invited her to go also? B/c if she did, and since you sort of asked your wife like it was a second thought (which under different circumstance, would have been handled perfectly)you may have both women with tender spots now. If your sister seemed hurt or disappointed about your W not going, maybe you will have a chance to tell your sister that you wanted to have the chance for just the two of you to get out together. Or, you may tell her that you didn't tell your W until the last minute and didn't really press the invitation. I just hate to see these two ladies hurting b/c I have been in a family where--nothing like that happened--but other things made it very tense for everyone. It may seem that I am adding to your burdens and I don't mean to do that, so I'll change the subject.
I realize that "detaching" is very difficult when living in the same house, but that is about all that you can do with small children still at home. I really do not like for anyone to use the term going "dark" unless they live apart from their spouse and do not have to co-parent. I think it can be done in somesituations where the couple are co-parenting, but it is very hard and most people are not too good at it. I have noticed a lot of people lately using the term "going dim" and I suppose they are using that term in place of "detaching", but I could understand how confusing it would all seem to a newcomer. It is just my opinion, but I think if you are all warm and fuzzy one day and then call yourself going back on "dim" the next.....what is a spouse suppose to think except that it is YOU that's nuts! They see YOU as beeing the one that is "moody" if you are all smiles one day and "dark" the next! Doesn't that seem logical? We don't want to appear to be on a roller coaster also. We are the ones that are suppose to be stable in the R.
Anyway, everyone to their own different taste on "word play", I suppose. I go along with the word "detach" b/c that is what MWD uses in her DR book to teach about how to back away and give a person breathing room when they start with all this ILYBINILWY business. Married people are so afraid to use this principle of pulling back b/c they say that was one of the S's complaints in the past. Yes......."in the past" but not now. Now....it's too little too late.....(the way they look at it). It thrills me to see a person have the courage to use this principle and see how it actually "draws" their spouse to them whenever they detach. They are just so afraid of doing that b/c they are afraid of the spouse walking away. If only they would stop acting so boring--like life was going to fall off of them, and start being fun for people to be around and acting excited about life, and especially get their focus off the spouse and onto themselves......it would not be long until they would see a 180 change in their spouses and their lives together. But, trying to get folks to "believe" that it will work is the hardest thing........that, and them keeping their mouths shut!
This is what I mainly wanted to say about what was posted last night and this morning. Whatever your spouse wanted in the M "before" they plunged into MLC or an A or whatever is going on with them at this time.........you cannot handle it the same way you would have and could have handled it back during that time they were wanting you to change. Why??? B/c they have changed into a different person now. What they once wanted so badly, they may not care at all about now.....it just depends on the different situations. It could be that their emotional needs went unmet for so long that everything is different now. For an example, I wanted my H to be very attentive, but after so many years of not getting what I needed.......and a lot of things happening that I won't get into right now, him being attentive was the last thing I wanted from him b/c it meant him hoovering over me and I felt as though I could not breathe when he did that. My daughter even made the statement that she thought that was what I wanted! She was shocked that I complained about it to her. Well, that was before I went into my temporary state of insanity. Once I was in my crises mode, I didn't want him anywhere around me. So, that is why I am try get your attention about this, and yours also Stillloveshim, b/c what you once could have done to improve the marriage--is not going to work that way now. It is like reading these little sweet books about how to add that spark back to your M and then reading DR which is how to bust a divorce and have yourself come through the crisis being a better person regardless of what your spouse does. I have read so many of those little add zest to your M type books until I could throw up, and I even applied them, but did it help me when things really go bad? Nope! However, what I learned on this board and from MWD did help a lot. I'll have to admit that it was coming here every night and having people talk straight to me that was what woke me up more than even the book, but then I was the WAW and not too many of them read the book, usually it is the LBS. However, the book did help me.
Thinker, I remember one night after my H and I were going to try to use one of Smalley's books, "Love is a Decision" as sort of a guide to read and to discuss, but I had not completely reached that point of being willing "to be willing". My H wanted me to read outloud and then we would talk. Or at least that is what we were "suppose" to do each night. The first time, he acted as if he was trying, but by the second time, I could tell that it was going to be like it had always been our entire M. I would talk and he would just sit there........and if I waited and refused to say anything until he answered a question? He would finally have to tell me he didn't know what to say. Talk about your feathers falling! About the third time we tried it, I looked over at him sitting there as I was reading the chapter and his eyes were about to close shut--he was so sleepy. The fourth night, I told him I didn't feel like doing it and he hasn't said anymore about it since. So, see how excited he was? Well, I was determined that it was not going to be like it had always been in the past. If he wanted me to stay with him, he needed to open up and talk to me. So, he didn't open up and we didn't talk. I am not suggesting that others do that!! It is a long story and I can't go into my reasons behind why I felt that way, but anyway, I did stay and things are okay, but it is b/c I had to "accept" it the way it is and realize that my H was not going to change and that there were certain things that would not change. I know a lot of this doesn't make sense to some, but you'll just have to trust me on that.
To try to sum it up, let me say again that what Michelle teaches is the best for busting a divorce. All the other books are like suplements to use. With Michelle's teaching, you learn to save yourself along the way. You have to think differently than you thought in the past. You have to see your spouse differently than in the past. Both of you are older and both of you have changed.
Anyway Thinker, don't reject your sister. She is sorry and feels terrible about what happened. You are blesssed that the baby did not have some major trama over a head injury. It will take some healing time for your wife, but hopefully if your sister won't give up and just continue to try to give your W time to get over that stituation, things will be okay.
This is longer than I meant it to be, guess I got to rambling.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Recently it has not really been so much of a roller coaster as a necessaary leap of faith. Things have been really quiet, and sometimes I feel that my W is DBing me. The more I detach, the more she detaches. The more I do my own thing, the more she does hers, etc.
If I just looked at our outward situation, I would swear things are getting worse.2 months ago we would snuggle, my w would ask for massages, and we would ML occasionally. Now that is all gone. I have to temper this, however, with the knowledge that 2 months ago my W was also deep in the throes of a secret EA which I believe is now 1-sided and winding down. I was also clingy and desperate, and am now feeling a lot better about myself and amazingly more independent.
I have been working my way through "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and it has been helping me. I realize that for a long time I have been "caretaking" or "giving to get" - a habbit where I do nice things for my W with the unspoken expectation that in response she will give me the attention / love that I need. It is a completely cheeseless tunnel, and only makes me resentful.
This morning, as we were both slowly waking up, I was very close to starting to give her an unasked for back rub (with of course the unspoken and probably unrealistic hope that she would respond and snuggle or even offer me one. In reality she probably would have either asked me to stop, or just put up with it quietly until I quit. This would have left me feeling rejected, resentful, and with less self esteem.
I remembered what I was reading, realized what I was doing, and instead did nothing but go back to sleep.
Seems crazy not to try to do nice things for her, but that's where we are.
I'm a little bit proud of myself.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
About the third time we tried it, I looked over at him sitting there as I was reading the chapter and his eyes were about to close shut--he was so sleepy.
Too funny,
I also tried the "we'll read this book together aloud and discuss it route (about a year and a half ago) and I also looked over to see my W falling asleep. It's funny now, but I was so frustrated with her at the time...
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
In the end, I didn't end up going to the concert after all. My W and 2 of my sons all got sick today and spend the day in bed. I ended up canceling and staying home this evening to take care of everyone as I am the only one standing.
Real quiet day today.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
I spent all day yesterday doing stuff with the boys and then taking care of everyone else because my W was sick in bed all day. This morning, I took all 3 boys to church while she stayed home because she was feeling better, but still not that well. While I was at church we made plans to go biking. When I got home, I got the boys bikes out, and went in to tell my W AND SHE THREW A FIT.
She yelled, called me selfish for excluding her from the plans and trying to trap her in the house more, said "Maybe I want to go". I told her she was invited to come, but she did not want to take our youngest out of the house at naptime, which meant that only one of us could go out with the older boys and the other adult had to stay at home. Suddenly she was feeling better and was bound and determined that I would be the one to stay home.
She gets like this. She asks for space, but that seems to be defined as me staying at home and taking care of things here so that she can go out and have fun (and otherwise not bothering her). If I give her space by taking the boys and going and doing something fun, then I am "being selfish", "thinking only of myself" and "excluding her".
She was still showering when I got home, but when she thought I was going to leave and go without her she finished and got dressed faster than I have ever seen her do it and came charging out angrily.
So they all just went for a "bike ride" - in the end I backed off and let her go with them.
I think she is not used to me being decisive and making plans. In the past, I would have not made any plans without consulting with her first (this is the polite and considerate thing to do) -- and then been resentful when I found that she already had a full day planed that often excluded me - play dates with her friends and their kids, birthday parties, etc. She still expects me to plan completely around her and what she wants to do, but it is not a 2-way street. My GAL change - doing a lot more away from the house, spending more time with the boys, spending more time on myself and therefore not being always available - is threatening her world.
She is also feeling competition with me over the kids. I have noticed that as she has become more completely withdrawn from me, she is getting more and more affectionate with the boys and more and more jealous of anything fun that I do with them. She wants me to carry a full share of the child care workload (and I do) and to be available to stay at home with the boys whenever she wants to go out, but doesn't want to share the fun stuff and increasingly seems to be trying to compete with me for their affection.
On one hand, this could be a bad thing -- a sign that she is mentally preparing herself for a D. On the other hand, maybe it is a good thing that she is getting angry and yelling a bit. It is more open emotion than I have seen her show in a while.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
After thinking about it, I realize that this interaction is just another example of the dynamic that we have had for years.
- I make plans or start do do something (without her input - either because I don't ask, or because she is uncommunicative about her own plans) - She gets angry - I back down to keep the peace and to stop her from being angry - She does what she wants to do - I feel resentful
...and then after the resentment builds up for a while, I can get a little bit ugly - lecturing, criticizing, etc.
I need to break the cycle.
Any suggestions...
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
The more I detach, the more she detaches. The more I do my own thing, the more she does hers, etc.