Just stopping by for a bit to catch up with old friends.
You know... I'm a super-duper, ultra logical, high IQ guy who spent six months of his life trying to analyse my sitch, just like you. I read book after book, poured over the posts here, spent countless hours just thinking.
In the end, I've come to the firm conviction that I will never understand my wife. She doesn't understand herself. It's all futile. Just focus on yourself... it's truely the only thing you can control.
Maybe it works out and maybe it doesn't.
My thread, Carpe Diem #4 Orig Thread: Carpe Diem #1
glad to hear good things about Retrovaille. I usually do.
Keep it all up!
( j )
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
You know what's sad? Understanding sacrificial mistress sounds so hot. (ducking the anti-jerk baton)
Yeah, well he liked it. It made it SO much easier for him to have a revenge affair to get back at his wife...that he's leaving...in 2012 or something. If she gives him a permission slip...on an even-numbered Tuesday..with a full moon.
Good to hear from you. I hope everything is going well for you.
Originally Posted By: techguy
You know... I'm a super-duper, ultra logical, high IQ guy who spent six months of his life trying to analyse my sitch, just like you. I read book after book, poured over the posts here, spent countless hours just thinking.
Well, I am not sure I spent that much time analyzing my sitch. I realize I spent a lot of time trying to fix my sitch and my W. I am a doer, I usually get things done without a lot of thinking. I have a solution for everything. Maybe I should have analyzed the sitch a little more, should have tried to look at it with her eyes. When I do that, I can see that she has some very dim choices:
Either she stays in a marriage with a guy she is not sure she still loves. Or she tries to run, but where. If she stays in this country, which on the surface seems to be better for the kids, because we can co-parent in a relatively friendly way, she does not get what she wants in terms of being with her extended family, plus the OM is not an option either. If she tries to go back to Germany, she risks a custody battle that could take years and could be very detrimental for our kids. So that is a tough decision she needs to make.
Obviously I would know what I would choose, but I do not know what I would choose if I were in her shoes. It seems like there are a few genes missing on that Y chromosome that would enable me to look at it with female and motherly eyes.
Originally Posted By: techguy
In the end, I've come to the firm conviction that I will never understand my wife. She doesn't understand herself. It's all futile. Just focus on yourself... it's truely the only thing you can control.
Very true. And I still have a lot of work to do on myself. And as long as that is the case, I am not going to move on in terms of M. But certainly at some point in the future, when I think I have healed and dealt with my own issues and problems, it is time to make that decision. Will I try to hang on, be patient and wait for her decision if she has not made it by then or do I move on without her? I can and will make all the changes necessary to make myself a better person, and those changes are necessary, but maybe not sufficient to save our M and improve our R.
M43 W45, M17 S9 D6 Bomb: 11/11/08 EA: 10/26-12/31/08 ? Retrouvaille: 2/13-2/15/09 Healed, but still heading for D My situation
Just to confuse you some more, let me throw in a few thoughts. One is about MLC as a term we use to describe what we (LBSers) see as bizarre & heretofore unseen behavior in our mates, versus the label used on us, when we make a choice the other spouse simply does not like.
Regardless of whether there is MLC going on, or a WAW, or whatever label we come up with, you are rightly realizing that the label only goes so far, b/c it usually calls for the same response in you anyhow, i.e., GAL, PMA, 180's, "listen and validate like a friend" etc. The only difference is in what your expectations may be. And either way, expectations are not so helpful at this stage.
If she has "hit the wall and has simply had enough", that's worse for you probably. But if she sees change, then who knows? She did attend the retro weekend, and that's saying something.
On the other matter, ---I strongly believe HS reunions are BIG triggers for "new" behavior, (or really really old HS behavior-- unseen in years) but they're usually temporary. I went to my HS reunion last fall, and once AGAIN, went into a period of nostalgic reflection. I have attended all my HS reunions, but the one 10 years ago almost made me do something out of character, as it came at a bad time in the M AND It was like a time machine. "What h? What kids? What 20+ year m?"
Several friends said the same thing! Even My older brother, who dated a classmate of mine, or two, (and is married with 7 girls) also said he felt the same way. He actually asked me not to mention his 7 kids when I ran into his former HS gf, from 30 years ago!! And he's happily married-- (most of the time - with 7 kids...you know, you have your days...)
I saw an old guy friend dancing with his HS prom date, and they asked me if I thought it would be weird for them to date again (both are single now). They ARE dating now, since October. MLC? I don't think so. Yearning to be young again? I don't think so. I'm just happy for them reconnecting for now. The good news is that all the married friends that had the "time machine" effect all said it passed, as has mine.
But It did trigger some memories & deep reflections. Not only about M, but about my career, looks, number of children, what type of parent I am....
When I attended the one 10 years ago, my M was in a bad spot, I hated where we were living, was so homesick, my HS bf was there, and there was still chemistry --so if my best friends were not around to watch out for me, which they were and did, who knows? Thank God they prevented me from making a big mistake. A few drinks, memories of a happier time, chemistry still present in a R, at a very vulnerable time in the M...well, there are definitely days I say "there but for the Grace of God, go I..." Several friends told me they had similar episodes at the reunions..not just me, and not just women.
But I agree MLC has become too broad a term. I think for my h,his behavior prior to his obsession with Alaska, was very different than during the "MLC" (or whatever we'll call it), time period. Since it was so alien and such an unknown side of him, I was shocked, and called it "MLC" and oh, just to be totally cliched, he turned 50 at the peak of it, and that was such a big deal to him. I don't know better terms for it.
What I worry about with the MLC label (and think Breakaway was hitting on this, at least in part) is when it's over-used with women, who are FINALLY acting rationally (from a survival & self preservation standpoint). Women who have just had enough craziness FROM their spouses, get mis-labelled MLC (OR worse, "change of life" "hormonal" ) more often and then it ticks me off b/c the h's want to label the w as "crazy" or hormonally out of whack, anything to avoid any responsibility on their end, when in reality she just woke up, or stood up for herself, or finally acted in response to HIS behavior.
Sorry, but I find this is even more true for men who pride themselves on their rationality and logic. Some even boast of it. (One wonders why they married such "emotional" and fragile creatures as women in the first place).
These types of men cannot see how oppressive , critical and sterile that can feel as a wife. It's the "gaslight" treatment. Not saying this is you, but am expressing how unappealing it is to me to hear a man describe himself this way, while pretending that he isn't implying fault in the wife, which he usually is. ((Of course NOT always)). It's like the word "hysteria", and is definitely a code word for "crazy female". Just something to be aware of. If this applies, be brave and ponder it. If not, discard. No problem. I'm impressed at how you are trying to figure out your role in all this and that is KEY to making anything come of this.
AN, I'm on your M's side, fwiw. I'm hopeful for you.
Breakaway, I totally relate to the "permission from God" you want before deciding. We all want clarity. I just don't know if we ever get that level of clarity and certainty--almost wishing for a punch in the face b/c then you would have your clarity. It's the grayer areas that get so difficult. On one hand we have so many in our world who'll leave a LONG marriage at the first sign of uncomfortable or hard change, required of them[/b...yet there is a segment of society that is the opposite of the disposable side, who'll stay for their whole lives...and [b]they'll see a h who doesn't drink too much, has a job, does not cheat or beat, and ask "So what's the problem?" How sad if that's the only criteria...even without kids, you'd think it's not asking too much to want a little bit more from our lifetime companions...I know I do. I'm lucky now.
Breakaway, what would "Permission" sound/feel like to you? Maybe if you knew that, it would help... I believe that if we cannot look ourselves in the mirror when we are very old, andknow our choices were made out of love, then that would be the biggest tragedy. I pity those who'll have to face their maker with that type of burden on their shoulders. Not us, nope. But I am also pretty sure God does not want us to be miserable, and that free will sometimes means making a choice that we were trained not to make...make sense? ((( )))) j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thank you 25yearsmlc for your insightful comments. While MLC and HS reunion may have played a role during the last few months, I am pretty sure that the only thing they impacted was the timing of all of this. I am almost sure it would have happened this way no matter what. Unless my W threatened very credibly to D me, I am not sure anything would have registered with me. It is sad to recognize that, but I believe without being brutally honest with myself I will not be able to heal.
The last four days have been a roller coaster. Friday night we had some light discussion that turned into something big. I had made a comment how I wanted to change our master bathroom, which she responded to by saying "I do not really care about your plans. I want to go back to Germany in the summer." So we exchanged a few harsher words (I could still kick myself in the behind for taking the bait again) and there were three days of a cold wall between us. Even our third post-session on Sunday did not repair this one.
So last night I finally decided I had to do something about this. When I took my S8 to basketball practice, I had one hour to kill and to figure out how to make an attempt to repair this. When I came home, my S8 still had to finish his homework before we put both kids to bed. I ended up in bed first and when she came, I started my apology:
"You remember the book you gave me at the beginning of our M about teddy bears being the better husbands."
She looked at me a little puzzled not knowing where I was going with this. So I continued:
"I want to apologize for my behavior during the last few days. It was wrong to get upset and did not show any compassion. So I want to give a guy you can turn to when I am not a good husband."
With that I gave her a little teddy bear that I had gotten from Hallmark. She smiled and we started talking for a while. All of a sudden, she grabbed my hand and pulls me over. We started hugging and kissing and ended up ML for first time since October.
She joked a lot after that. At the beginning, she often used to ask me what I was thinking. I had told her recently that I was panicking when she asked me that. I did not know what she wanted to hear. Of course, she asked me again and started to laugh "are you panicking now?"
I kissed her goodnight after midnight and gave her a kiss this morning. We have hugged a few times this morning, and everything seems changed.
The most important thing for me right now to continue my way. I must not relax and think everything is OK. There is still so much to do, still so much I need to work on. But getting this first truly positive reaction from my W is a great motivator. And I hope it is great motivator to everybody else on this BB and helps them believe that everything is possible.
AN
M43 W45, M17 S9 D6 Bomb: 11/11/08 EA: 10/26-12/31/08 ? Retrouvaille: 2/13-2/15/09 Healed, but still heading for D My situation
Hi, you wrote on my wall today and I just wanted to thank you for some soundadvice! I haven't had the chance to read through yours yet, but I will. Please check in with me once in awhile if you can, I can always use sound caring advice. By the way I have suggested Retrouvaille to my wife but she is not open to it, sadly!
You are very welcome. It feels good giving back. When I came here 5 months ago, I was as desperate, anxious and probably angry as every newcomer on this BB. You may not believe it yet, but at the end of your journey you will be a better person and you will be the one helping the newcomers.
As far as Retro is concerned, it might just take some time. My W was not open to it initially either. There was an OM, and she had had with me. She saw absolutely no chance for our M. After a while though, she realized she had nothing to lose. Worst case, after the Retro weekend we would be exactly where we were before (even though I believe that has probably never happened with any couple going there). I do not know what ultimately changed her decision, maybe it was a combination of the changes she saw in me, the responsibility she felt for our kids, and maybe a little bit of fear of putting everybody through the trauma of D. It does not really matter to me. She did go, and it was the most overwhelming experience and dramatic results for me that 12 months of IC would not have accomplished. I will be forever grateful to her.
M43 W45, M17 S9 D6 Bomb: 11/11/08 EA: 10/26-12/31/08 ? Retrouvaille: 2/13-2/15/09 Healed, but still heading for D My situation
Congratulations on another breakthrough! Restoring the sex life is probably the most important thing you can do, after communication. I am happy to hear that things are still improving.
