On 2/13/09 my W told me she wants a D. ILYBNILWY. It's over. Done. No going back. Etc. Electronic EA. Reasons (original and updated during R talks:) Asked for counseling many times, I blew it off, pushed her away, life w/me is misery, everyone says they never understood why she married me, there's nothing left, black hole, now not even ILYBNILWY but "I have no feelings for you whatsoever except for the anger that you're making me go to counseling."
Still in same home, separate rooms, separate schedules. 2 kids 9/6.
My family: Sorry, but parents stay for the kids. Her family (according to W): We'll support you no matter what.
MC one time (this week), scheduled for next week.
My C says "stop making excuses for her" because I acknowledged the validity of her statements.
I'm making changes, real changes. But no opportunity for W to see them, because she stays at work until she knows that I'll be asleep; plans weekend work activities so she can get out of house, etc.
And she just keeps saying, "If you really loved me you'd let me go. I'll never love you again. You're just making this hard on everyone." And etc.
And it sounds reasonable in an intellectual sense. Of course you'd let someone be happy if that was what you were really interested in.
In our R talks (phone), I make my position clear: I intend to fight. I see a future, regardless of the present and regardless of the past. She makes her position clear: I don't -- that's it, we're irreconcilable.
And that sounds reasonable in an intellectual sense.
So what do you do when everything that goes against what you want, feel, know sounds reasonable and so, logically, you must be unreasonable?
And she just keeps saying, "If you really loved me you'd let me go. I'll never love you again. You're just making this hard on everyone." And etc.
And it sounds reasonable in an intellectual sense. Of course you'd let someone be happy if that was what you were really interested in.
In our R talks (phone), I make my position clear: I intend to fight. I see a future, regardless of the present and regardless of the past. She makes her position clear: I don't -- that's it, we're irreconcilable.
And that sounds reasonable in an intellectual sense.
Hemlock,
I don't accept your premise, and I'll tell you why:
Your wife right now is an ADDICT. Affairs are HIGHLY addictive, and she is addicted to her affair partner. She is NOT making good decisions right now, so no, it's NOT reasonable to let a person in that condition "go," nor is it reasonable to let their reasoning dictate the course of the marriage, because they're fogged out on the love chemicals.
Just google "brain PEA infidelity" sometime, and do some research on it. It's what made an otherwise intelligent, sane adult female astronaut drive cross-country WEARING AN ADULT DIAPER to save time for bathroom stops, while she went to avenge her man.
There is nothing "reasonable" about letting a fogged-out wayward's terms, thoughts or plans guide the potential end of a marriage. The next time she says "if you loved me, you'd let me go," just say "I understand you feel that way right now. I'm doing what I feel I need to do."
I get the image of Socrates and his poisonous drink.
If you love her, let her go.
That is a method of fighting for your marriage. Think about it.. when are you more likely to listen.. when you're struggling to escape or when you're standing free and heard?
It's not about winning the battle. The more you insist, the more she'll resist.
What each of your families say doesn't mean diddly-squat. This is between the two of you, period.
Listen to your counselor.. DON'T make excuses for her. She's a big girl, she can take accountability for her choices. Discuss with your counselor why you feel the need to behave in such a way, get to how you really feel, what's actually going on.
About making your position clear.. she knows it, she doesn't need to hear it over and over. If you maintain that form of dialog she has no reason to talk to you.. because she knows what to expect.
If you want her to approach you, to see be curious as to why you are so different (180) then move forward with making yourself healthy, creating your own 'get a life' activities.
As long as you live your life based on her reactions, you are not living your life.
I only say this, because this is what I lived. If someone is resolute on leaving, if they've already emotionally detached (and probably have been for years) nothing you can say or do will change their minds. Let them go. That does not demean how you feel about your belief in marriage, the sanctity of family.
It puts it on them. They choose to return or they continue on their path.
It's your choice in how you live and see your life, care for your children.
Puppy -- I guess I wasn't as clear as I should have been. We've all heard the Hallmark card "If you love something, set it free; if it comes back to you... blahdeeblah."
And as a purely academic problem -- yeah, of course. Sting made a million bucks with that song, right?
One of my great personal flaws is over-analyzing, parsing, reading between lines.
It's also one of my great personal strengths since, among other things, it's what I'm paid to do.
So Thinking DrHemlock says, "Yes, that is a rational proposition."
Emotional DrHemlock says, "Ya gotta be effin kidding me! I'm not in the Secret Service -- it's not my job to take a bullet for you! Ya want out? Serve me papers!"
But of course Rookie DB'er DrHemlock just says nothing at all and runs to the discussion board!
Reading Gypsy's post, I should clarify an important distinction:
"Letting go" does NOT mean "giving up."
I DO think you shouldn't give up, and you should fight for your marriage and you can tell your wife that you are.
But you should ALSO "drop the rope" as DB teaches, and there's nothing wrong with letting her know THAT, too.
It's a real fine line, but you want to convey "I love you, and I don't want a divorce, but I also won't wait forever. I realize that I can't control you, and so I'm BEGINNING TO move on with my life. I pray you'll make the right decision."
We have these R talks, with and without the MC. Assume -- simply for sake of argument - that I agree and understand and have GALd and gone dark and the only thing standing between me and adding a "D" to my signature is the paperwork.
It happens to be the case that, in the REAL WORLD -- and not in W's Divorce Fantasy World where we're great pals and great parents and great friends and have great and enriching lives -- but in the REAL WORLD, where the economy is tanking and unemployment is on the rise, and either one of us could face serious financial struggles just around the corner, W couldn't possibly pick a worse possible time to do this.
Would it be reasonable to bring that up? Is there any way I could point that out -- simply as a fact -- and not have it be "self-serving?"
in W's Divorce Fantasy World where we're great pals and great parents and great friends and have great and enriching lives --
Ha! this seems to be a common fantasy world. My W also sometimes seemed to think / believe that we could get divorced and still live happily ever after as a family.
but Remember (something I have trouble remembering) any time you start an R discussion (of any kind, even this one) you are chasing her out the door.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Focusing on practical things like finances when she's running after passion and "true love" (she thinks) is NOT going to do anything, in my opinion.
If you're grasping desperately for anything right now, try something that will show her that her soul will be saved, not her pocket.
Besides, isn't her "lover" a rich man?
In her state of mind, she feels like she's taking a leap that is worth the risk. Especially if you haven't given her the love that she needs all these years. She feels she's leaving a place of empty anguish and going to a place of fulfilling love and intimacy.
To achieve the intimacy that I want with my husband, I would give up all of my earthly possessions and I would live even poorer than we are now. That may be her stance as well.
The only thing you can offer her is to become a MAN that can give her real love and intimacy. I would bet that nothing short of that will do much at all.
