Walk Away German Wife (WAGW)

[MrBond]

That is true. But also remember that when you were having your A, you also probably spent money on your GF. And it's even worse when you are open about it to her which of course belittles her.

Now it's her turn to get the love of someone she feels understands her now. Will reality set in? Sure. Sounds like she still loves the kids very much. But now she's in the "me" phase. She's doing what she wants to now and not what anyone else does.

Keep praying that it'll pass and have faith.

[PortlandDad]

I am nothing if not hopeful.

Latest update:

So I did call her and confront her about her PA that she allegedly had back in the day. She was, of course, completely defensive and claimed that it wasn't true and wanted to know how I would believe my sister over her. I told her that the two of them used to be really good friends back then and told each other lots of stuff; for example, my sis was going through an affair of her own and would confide in my W what was going on, etc.

After a few minutes of heated exchange, my W flips out and says that she now wants a D, and that she can't take it any longer. She handed the phone to my MIL (who was staying over at her apartment at the time) and she tells me that the whole PA thing was a joke that she orchestrated to make me jealous at the time. She claims that once the news got back to me, I would confront her and she wanted to see if I would get mad or jealous for her. I told her that, if that was true, why didn't they clean it up 11 years ago when it obviously had failed? After all, if there was no truth to it, why would she let my entire family think that she had been unfaithful to me for all that time?

Bleh. I spoke with my MIL for about 2.5 hours and calmed down a lot. I still don't believe that nothing happened, but once my W calmed down, we did agree that staying together was still better than getting a D.

I hadn't really thought much about her since, until this morning when she called again. I had just come back from taking my boys for a doctor visit. My oldest and I are on anti-depressants and are doing very well. My S13 is starting to show the classic signs of depression, and I thought that maybe he should be on what we are taking. My W is adamant that he not take anything to help. When I pressed her, she seems to think that the pills that my S17 and I are taking are making us into zombies or something, and she doesn't want him to be like that.

I tried to explain that the stuff we are taking (Celexa) isn't habit-forming, or "zombifying" or anything like that, but she wouldn't have any part of that. Then she immediately started denigrating herself, saying that when she had suggested MC years ago that I had balked, but now that she abandoned us here I was rushing the whole family in C. I told her the C was for the kids and for me to help us deal with this sitch.

Then she wanted to fight... started complaining about the past: how for 18 years she fought for the family, felt alone, despondent, I was never there for her, why hadn't my S13 done anything together in the 3 months since she's been gone, etc. At that point, I had to put the phone down and walk away. I was being goaded into a fight and I don't want to fight with her. Talk, yes. Fight, no.

I think I'm going to give her a few days to cool off. My GAL activities are working for me and my obsessing about her is largely a thing of the past. I signed up for two classes at PCC for Spring Quarter, Latin and German 2. I want to show her that I am still true to my word about wanting to expand my German language skills, and that I do still think of a life together with her in Germany once this R is fixed.

Any and all prayers for us are greatly appreciated!

[MrBond]

That was definitely the wrong thing to do. Sorry.

She was letting out all 18 years of frustration that you had done to her and you should have just let her get it all out. It sounds like even though YOU feel as if you've atoned for what you've done, she has not. And her opinion is the more important one because she was the one who was hurt.

I think if you would have let her get everything out, she would have calmed down and been willing to talk about solutions. That's why validation in DBing is so important. Alot of times our WAWs feel they've tried to tell us how we hurt them and we just ignored it.

With you walking away from the conversation, it again shows that you aren't willing to listen to her. Just let her have her say, suck it up and agree. It doesn't matter if you agree or not. All she wants to do is be heard. Try that out.

[PortlandDad]

That's a good point. I probably should have let her unload on me and just have validated her feelings and been good with just that. It isn't as though I don't feel incredibly guilty and remorseful about what is happening, but I have a temper, too, and it was mainly a defensive maneuver to prevent me from saying something that I would regret later (boy have I ever done that before!)

When she asked me if I thought she was having a party over there and if I thought that this separation from her kids (not from me!) was easy for her, I was biting my tongue to keep from saying that she is the only person that can fix this; that she is staying away from us, not the other way around.

I also know that she has been talking to her A partner again. He is computer savvy enough not to send her any e-mails, or post messages on social networks to her, but my W isn't: so I can read the messages that she mails to him. Of course, she has her own cell and lives 5 minutes from the guy, so most of their liaisons, I'm sure, are cell-space or meat-space.

This begs the question: just how much gravitas should the LBS place on the OM/OW? I know in my EA, my A partner was very passive; she didn't want to be seen as a homewrecker and she never once told me to leave my W. In fact, she never pushed me for a decision to leave her, either. It was frustrating at the time because I really wanted her to tell me what I should do. In the end, my EA ended mainly because of the guilt that I was feeling about treating my W the way I did, and the fact that my GF wasn't pushing me to leave my W.

Fast-forward to today: her BF is extremely hostile to me and manipulative. He is actively trying to break up our M and to get her to stay in Germany with him. He told her that her kids were grown and if she wanted them to be with her that he would help her get custody of them. He has also said to me that I should just sign the papers and let her go (before there were was even talk of papers, btw). Now he is being careful and calculating: pulling her strings without leaving evidence that he is doing it. I almost always know when she has been out with him or has been talking to him because she is always so sure that what she is doing is right afterwords. In contrast, when she left on Monday, she even told me she loved me (first time in months!) and that she didn't know what she was doing. My MIL heard here comment and just about did a cartwheel, she was so happy.

Today, she came back from taking the dog for a walk and since she's been talking to the OM, she wanted to call up and stir the pot again. Started saying the same stuff that the OM told her back in Oct: I should let the kids come to Germany with her and so on.

*Sigh*

I wish I could remove the OM who is enabling her from the equation. It seems to me that until he gets tired of toying with her, or she comes to her senses, that I don't have much influence on anything. Maybe that is a good general forum topic: what can you do to reduce the effect that the OM/OW has on the WA?

[MrBond]

The only thing you can do is make yourself the better choice. Put yourself in the guy's shoes. If you wanted to impress this girl, what would you do?

I can tell you one thing he's doing is agreeing with her and listening. Then he takes what she says and turns them around to see that her leaving you is the better option. Which is why you should have let her vent.

Be the better option. She has history with you and all the good times have been buried in her. Kill her with kindness. How would you act if this were a new relationship? Forget about the kids for a minute. Think of your wife not as a wife, but as a woman.

What would you do to impress a new girl you wanted. Let your actions overpower the influence of the other guy. It'll take a while which is why patience is so important. I've been in this for a year and I'm still learning.

[PortlandDad]

Hi Stuck, as always, thanks for the great advice and perspective.

I know this OM pretty well and you are spot-on with how he treats my W. He listens to her, sends her photos of himself from exotic places around the world, helps her manage the day-2-day stuff like printing a document from her computer, or (before she had bought her own car) catching a ride the immigration office to fill out paperwork, etc. He is also very sensitive and can cry at the drop of a hat; something that I was never able to do until my W left, and then I developed that "trait" also.

I am pretty sure that I can be the better choice for her; you are right about the shared history and shared experiences bit. The kids and our M are hard things for her to walk away from, and in the absence of his pleading and pledges of support, her conviction wavers. You are right: since I am in this for the long view and she is not pressing for a divorce, I do believe that time is on my side. Her OM is a playboy to the 'T': he's into travelling all over the world on his familys' dime, racing motorbikes in France, climbing glaciers in the Alps, and surfing in Hawaii. He's got girlfriends in every port of call (judging from his social network photo page), and I'm sure has no long-term interest in my W. They were in grade-school together is their only past connection, and he claims that he wants her to be happy (by getting rid of me and her kids!)

Eventually he will tire of her and she will have to make the decision to stay where she is, or to come back and give our M another try. Money is the other problem that she is facing now. She apparently lied about being accepted to nursing school, and she didn't really have a job interview at a hospital. These things seem to be par for her: she suffers from a very low self-esteem and lies to bolster her image to people.

I just hope that her financial situation doesn't degrade to the point that she is forced to come back before she actually wants to. As I have said before, though, I am working on me and my family right now.

Something for me to ponder: how does one "kill with kindness" when communication is almost non-existent, and wouldn't increased communication be seen as pursuit? I am always upbeat (at least initially) when she calls. Letting her vent more when she does call would be good, certainly. Any ideas for non-pursuing kindness?

[PortlandDad]

W called me today and talked for about an hour with the kids and me. She was pleasant and not confrontational: she probably hasn't spoken with the OM yet today. I told her that I was planning on taking the kids to the beach next weekend, and that they wanted to take a few friends along, but my civic ain't going to cut it, so I'm going car shopping tomorrow to get me a mini-van. I told her that I needed a larger capacity automobile since she sold the expedition. She sounded really remorseful and said that IF I would have told her sooner she wouldn't have sold it. I reminded her that she called me only afterward to tell me that she had already sold it...

*sigh* She is so impulsive... that trait of hers was so endearing when we were dating; now it is just costly.

[PortlandDad]

She called again today: a good sign to be sure. She wanted to talk to the boys and then to me. I think this is the most frequent that she has been calling since our separation began. She told me that she is getting sick again (cold or flu), and that both my MIL and FIL are sick with the flu also. Her immune system is horrible, so it doesn't surprise me that she is getting sick again.

Today is going well for my boys and I. Took my S13 to see Watchmen (I don't recommend it in hindsight.. the R rating was well-deserved), then we went shopping for groceries together. Prior to this week it was an activity that always made me melancholy because it was one of the few activities that the W and I used to do together. Thanks to my meds it doesn't even faze me now (or maybe it's the GAL stuff I'm doing)

Thanks for the kind words and support! Patience, patience, and more patience... Things are improving!

[smith18]

Hi PortlandDad -

I think you are just going to have to wait for the affair to wear down. She is so confused right now and once OM is out of the picture, I believe she is going to have an awakening of regret.

You sound well grounded. The shopping without feeling sad is a good sign for yourself that you have the confidence to live your own life. Get that mini van so as to get out and have fun with the kids. I think a mini van is a bit more convenient, roomy and full efficient than an SUV.

BTW... I am a graduate of PCC.

[PortlandDad]

Hi KK,

I've come to this same conclusion. I believe she is already in the remorse stage, at least that is what it sounds like to me. She is definitely burning her bridges with her family and friends in Germany. According to both her and her mom, with the exception of taking her dog for a walk, she spends the entire day in her apartment.

I also found out that she took her aptitude test for the nursing school she wanted to attend and completely bombed it. She now has to wait 3 months to even attempt to take it again. She is not stupid by any stretch of the imagination, but this is a woman that failed her drivers license test 3 times in a row, despite intense study of the manual and online practice testing.

Her options, just like her illusion of a perfect life away from us, are evaporating. She still talks tough, though: still says that it's my fault for everything, still says what she is doing is right, yadda yadda. I recognize her bravado for the desperation that it really is and I don't get discouraged when she starts talking like that.

I'm kinda partial to a Dodge Caravan, but that is only because we had one years ago and I liked how roomy it was and how well it handled. Another added benefit of getting a mini-van is that my S17 who is working on his driver's license right now will be able to drive it (so safety is a big concern) and run errands for me and such.

Even though it matters very little right now, my W also complained the last time she called that she doesn't feel "safe" driving her little Fiesta, having been used to driving her expedition. I suppose I would let her drive the minivan when she comes back; that would make her feel safer on the road