WAW - Very confused and devestated - pt 4

[confusedinpa]

If you can swing it, take a trip out to Hawaii and do the LOST tour they have out here. Yes I'm in Hawaii and actually live next to some of the actors.

Whew sorry this is such a long post.

No appologies for a long post - as you can see I'm no stranger to them.

We had actually gone to Hawaii for our honeymoon (Maui) and I had been planning our 10 year anniversary trip there as a surprise (it would have been this Oct). I just hope I still get that chance.

With respect to the verbal ju-jit-su, what do you mean? Can you give me an example of how that would go if she says that she can't because she's still hurt/anger/resentful?

If saving the marriage is the goal, then what's the right answer?
Working/improving on the relationship? Finding the love/passion back in our relationship?

Women will evaluate their MLC in terms of emotion and feelings (career, future with kids, romance, etc.) Right now your W is re-evaluating everything in her life which shows in your posts. You're not going to be able to talk her out of it. But what you can do is to SHOW her the positives and build on them. Show her that the life she has really isn't as bad as she believes it is. Show her that the life she wants is right in front of her. People in MLC will only concentrate on the negatives thereby giving them that "trapped" feeling. So the only thing they know is that they want out. It's not logical.

It is so descriptive of her that it seems to be a mid-life crisis. She really seems unhappy/negative about everything in her life. I had asked her what her dream was (2-3 weeks ago) before and she said it was to be in a better place (I assume she meant physically and emotionally). Do you think I should ask her again to elaborate?

I know in her facebook page she has posted that her dream is love and her favorite place to be is in the arms of someone she loves (very hurtful the first time I read it). I didn't say anything to her about it. I assume I shouldn't. What are your thoughts?

I'm still working my 180 and getting a life. I did join a gym yesterday. When she saw me put a bag into my truck last nite, she asked what it was for and I told her it was my gym stuff. She made some comment about how I had enough time to do that. I told her that I haven't been hungry during lunch so rather than sit in my office, I think I'm going to try to go to the gym.

I think that irked her as she's gained weight over the last several weeks and right now I'm lighter than I was when I met her. In fact, today she sent me a picture from last year where I was about 20-25 lbs heavier with a double chin just to show me how much heavier I was. We joked about it back and forth in emails. I know it's bugging her as she's been trying to lose weight and I lost it without trying.....

Oh well, whatever....

[confusedinpa]

What do you think of NMMNG so far? Do you see yourself in any of the pages?

The Nice Guy book is pretty scary. I was never that type before (you can ask all my friends and people who worked for me). I see that's what I've become. I'm about half way through it and I'm really freaked out what has happened to me.

I've been trying to work the changes/activities into my 180.

Thanks for the recommendation!

[confusedinpa]

She may be trying, but I get the impression you do not let her heal. You pursue her constantly, take her temperature, do not give her space, that stops her right in her tracks. Think of the emotional wound as a physical wound on your arm or leg. If you keep scratching it, it breaks open and the healing process starts fresh. If you keep scratching open her emotional wounds, the same thing is happening there. That is probably why she cannot heal.

That's a very powerful analogy/metaphor. I'm really going to have to remember that one. I see what the power of space is in a time like this....

[spellfire]

The Nice Guy book is pretty scary. I was never that type before (you can ask all my friends and people who worked for me). I see that's what I've become. I'm about half way through it and I'm really freaked out what has happened to me.

Same for me. For some reason, serious relationships would bring out the worst in me. Maybe they just trigger all the defense mechanisms I learned as a child?

I am still not really a full blown NG, but in my M, and especially with regards to settling for little or bad sex, I certainly fit the profile. Don't be afraid of the material. Identifying your "control patterns" is a huge step forward towards being a better person.

As I stated before, try to understand the material completely before going out and suddenly implementing it. Use it to compliment your DBing, by gaining insight into why you act and react the way you do to the people around you.

Going hard out and trying to reverse everything all at once could be too much for your W given the fragile state of your R.

When you get done with the books you plan to read, don't forget, Way of the Superior Man and Hold on to Your NUTs will help you gain even more insight into yourself. Again, I recommend reading them to understand, but still use DBing in your implementation. Later, once your R is more secure and committed, you can try implementing some of the things those books recommend (such as a boundary you were too afraid to enforce in the past).

[MrBond]

"With respect to the verbal ju-jit-su, what do you mean? Can you give me an example of how that would go if she says that she can't because she's still hurt/anger/resentful?"

Well when you're having a conversation with her and you say something and she brings up the "hurt/anger/resentful" argument again, that's your cue that what you just said was wrong in her eyes. It's her defensive mechanism to block what you just said. So you counteract her defense by saying something that neutralizes what you said that she found wrong and in turn change it into something she agrees with. When you do that, she's going to feel that you "understand" her. Don't worry if it's not what you believe but if it helps to keep things positive between you two, then you have nothing to lose.

It takes some practice but after awhile, it'll get easier. That is an excellent cue that she gives off.

"If saving the marriage is the goal, then what's the right answer? Working/improving on the relationship? Finding the love/passion back in our relationship?"

That's the thing. What you just said are all goals. The right answers are the little positive things you do to make the situation better. For example, things that show that you appreciate her efforts, thanking her, complimenting her, GAL. See all of those things are little answers to your questions of what should I do? If you do enough of these things (like the Love Languages), you are in turn working on the relationship and bringing in the love/passion back into your relationship. And that's love/passion, not sexual. They are very different to a woman. Intensify the positive experiences with her and it will stoke the flames of passion. Hope that makes sense.

"It is so descriptive of her that it seems to be a mid-life crisis. She really seems unhappy/negative about everything in her life. I had asked her what her dream was (2-3 weeks ago) before and she said it was to be in a better place (I assume she meant physically and emotionally). Do you think I should ask her again to elaborate?"

Don't elaborate. I have a feeling she's going to bring it up on her own maybe in a different way. Just be prepared when she does and then you can ask her to elaborate IF SHE WANTS TO.

"I know it's bugging her as she's been trying to lose weight and I lost it without trying....."

Total MLC thinking. She's again looking at what she can have, but is self-defeating herself. She feels that she doesn't have the energy or strength to get into shape. Our Ws only see the negatives of everything going on right now. They need to see that the power lies within and that rather than tearing things down, the better answer is to build upon what they have.

People in MLC are either builders or destroyers. The ones who come out stronger are the ones who re-evaluate their lives based on the positives and build their new lives on that. The ones who come out weaker, are the ones who feel that the only way they can be happy is to destroy everything they had before and start all over again. They don't care that they are also destroying other peoples' lives along the way (spouse, kids, home, etc.) It's a very selfish time. So understanding that, make it about you and her as individuals.

Right now my W is so MLC that I decided that I would setup a bunch of fun activities for all of us to do. If my W has fun, great, if not, then her loss. I've changed it to show her that it's her decision to be happy or not. Rather than her trying to please me and vice versa. That builds her up and makes her stronger as a person and along with the compliments I've been giving her, hopefully will snap her out of her funk sooner. and that's what you want.

Your W will see your positive activities and at first she will be put off, but there may be a tipping point where she will think "that does look like fun" and start joining in. That will produce all of the good feeling endorphins in her body that will counteract all of the depressed feelings she's been keeping inside.

Keep her mind off the negative feelings. Literally. That's why I said something as simple as playing a board game together can do wonders.

[confusedinpa]

It was a very odd nite.

She was having a really bad day and on the way home called me to vent. I acknowledge and validated. She actually didn't get home with our youngest (she picks up our youngest and I pick up our oldest) until after the time we normally have them take their baths. I surprised her by having dinner ready and I had made a martini for her.

I already had 4 captain morgan and cokes so I was relaxed and not feeling any of the stress.

We were having a pretty good time during dinner, even though our youngest was still stressing and being difficult. Anyway, she started eating a hot dog very sexually. I looked at her and she just smiled. I got dessert out for the kids and she and I wound up locking ourselves in the den for a quickie. It was a little distracting with the kids banging on the door asking what we were doing but it still worked for me. I did tell her we could take care of her if she wanted to. She was surprised as she said "Oh, it's not all about you?"

Then we put the kids to bed right after they finished dessert (it was only about 20 minutes early - fortunately my 7 year old didn't notice). I was surprised to find her in our room (she started sleeping in the spare bedroom on Tuesday - see my rantings on my earlier posts). Anyway, she asked if I locked our door and since I wasn't ready to go again, we got one of her toys out. What was disturbing was in the middle of us playing with her toy, she started saying "I hate your ffing p*nis you a-hole"

After she was done with her toy, she started to play with me, but her comment really disturbed. I managed to get it going enough to get done myself again, but her comment was really troubling.

We spooned for a few minutes and talked. She said how I was selfish when she met me and it pretty much summed up all the issues she had about our relationship. She talked about how she felt during our relationship, she was only sexually satisfied for a couple years. She said it then became how I would just get her started enough so I can get done and I would roll over to go to bed. It was very frustrating for her how she couldn't sleep because she needed release but my snoring also kept her awake. I acknowledge and validated by saying "I can see how you feel that way. Now I'm glad you have toys that we can use on you afterwards"

She made it pretty clear that this was just alcohol driven lust. I shrugged it off as either way "it was still fun".

Afterwards, we cleaned up and she said she was going to the spare bedroom. She called it her safe zone. I asked her what she meant by that and she said it was a place that she could be away from all this "sh_t". I told her I understand and told her I remember how she told me several weeks ago how she had wanted to take a couple of days to think in a safe place. She asked if I was still ok with that. I told her that she needs to do what she needs to do to be ok. Not sure if I gave her too much "freedom" with that one, but we shall see.

Not sure if this becomes a weekly Thurs tradition. It bugs me that she's sleeping in the spare bedroom afterwards, but "whatever".

I know it's just alcohol driven lust, but it still bugs me what she said during it. What was also abnormal was how she kept dropping the f-bomb and swearing about stuff while were we talking. She never did that, but clearly, she's mad.

What was hurtful to me is before she went to the spare bedroom, we went downstairs to clean up after dinner. She picked through the mail and joked about how she wished she would get a letter from a guy. I didn't really respond or react. I just took a "whatever" attitude.

Any thoughts or is it really a lost cause?

[Dudess]

she started saying "I hate your ffing p*nis you a-hole"

Whoa. Yeah, that is pretty disturbing.

She talked about how she felt during our relationship, she was only sexually satisfied for a couple years. She said it then became how I would just get her started enough so I can get done and I would roll over to go to bed.

No wonder she's pissed.

It was very frustrating for her how she couldn't sleep because she needed release but my snoring also kept her awake. I acknowledge and validated by saying "I can see how you feel that way.

Do you really see how she feels that way or are you just saying that? Are you really connecting with how it would feel if you had become highly sexually excited and then have your wife get off and then just roll over and go to sleep, year after year?

Now I'm glad you have toys that we can use on you afterwards"

If you get another shot at it, use the toys before you get off, rather than after. I think you'll be glad you did.

A gentleman always follows the "Ladies First" rule.

[confusedinpa]

she started saying "I hate your ffing p*nis you a-hole"

Whoa. Yeah, that is pretty disturbing.

Yes it was very disturbing and distracting. Its going to take me a while to get that one out of my head. Especially when I see her take a bite of a hot dog now.....

It was very frustrating for her how she couldn't sleep because she needed release but my snoring also kept her awake. I acknowledge and validated by saying "I can see how you feel that way.

Do you really see how she feels that way or are you just saying that? Are you really connecting with how it would feel if you had become highly sexually excited and then have your wife get off and then just roll over and go to sleep, year after year?

Unfortunately, yes I do know how that feels. Over the last several weeks when we did sleep in the same bed. She didn't intentionally get me excited, but since my awakening from my depression, everything she does is very sexual to me. We would sleep in the same bed and the way she smelled and the softness of her skin really got me going. I think she knew it too because often she would wind up putting a pillow between us - even when she rolled over....

Now I'm glad you have toys that we can use on you afterwards"

If you get another shot at it, use the toys before you get off, rather than after. I think you'll be glad you did.

A gentleman always follows the "Ladies First" rule.

DOH! I should have known that one!!!

[spellfire]

She picked through the mail and joked about how she wished she would get a letter from a guy.

Huh? Did you ask her who would be sending her mail?

[confusedinpa]

She picked through the mail and joked about how she wished she would get a letter from a guy.

Huh? Did you ask her who would be sending her mail?

She said it jokingly as she was looking at a piece of junk mail from our local mall. I took it more as she is still sad/hurt about where our marriage/relationship is and had always dreamed marriage would have been with a guy that would be able to make her feel loved. She feels she missed that over the last several years of our marriage and won't be able to find it now that she has baggage. It makes me sad when I hear that as I want to be able to make her feel loved for the rest of our lives, but she's too hurt to let that happen....

Oh well, whatever....