In a post to Rzrbkfn you said your husband helped you a lot by agreeing to never talk about OM again - thereby helping you to start moving forward by removing the fear of those painful conversations.
I am wondering if and when I should do the same thing. I have largely dealt with it myself, and would be happy to just forget it and move forward.
Unfortunately, since in my sitch we NEVER have R discussions (last one was weeks ago when we had our last joint MC session) I would have to start an R discussion just to be able to say it.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
I understand the impression you got, but from a woman's perspective, which I have, she sat there with you, even if she was giving off the physical signs "don't touch me". She could have very very easily gotten up off the couch, to do anything, go to the bathroom, grab a drink, snack, whatever, etc. She didn't. She sat right there and let you see her crying. If you REALLY didn't want to share with anyone that you are upset, you can leave the room, have your boo-hoo, compose yourself and come back. I know, I've done it. I am ashamed to admit it, (but well for your benefit) I've also pulled that same act with my H that your wife pulled with yours. I did it because I wanted the attention and I may have wanted to make him feel bad because I was feeling bad because of him. I could be completely wrong, but I don't think so. I understand your wife's angst with your sister. I would feel the same way, not to be mean or to hold grudge, but because I would have serious concerns it could happen again. No one wants their babies to be in pain or danger. I know your sister didn't do it on purpose, so, tough spot. I don't think you can interpret moods. If you figure it out, PLEASE let me know so I can figure out my H's. Some days I feel completely confident we're going to create a new relationship together. Other times, I'm still scared. I agree, do your thing. I know it's hard. Boy do I know. And the mirroring the bad things from your marriage while you're really trying to save it.....oh the irony, and again, I understand and have the same concerns. Let me know if you figure that one out too.
We had a brief R discussion this evening. First one in a long time.
I started it by asking her about her Mom and some of the other stressful stuff in her life. I then said that I wished there were some way to just put the R stress on hold for a while so she could just focus on her mom, etc. and asked if it would help if we formally agreed not to talk about the R for a while.
She said "Thats OK, its not like we are talking about it anyway." then said "I don't really have anything to say about it, do you?"
After a pause, I replied that I actually do have a 2 things to say, and told her that "First, I have recently been able to see a lot of our past through her eyes, and that I am sorry" and "Second, I am OK not talking about the past few months and about the R in general and just living day to day" and that "the only thing I would like to talk about in general is if there are things we can do to take the stress out of the day to day R we have right now."
She didn't respond for a while, and then said that the only thing she needs right now is space.
We ended the discussion there.
I am ok with space.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Excuse the hijacking for a minute, but I wanted to ask Stillloveshim something. Where is your thread? I tried to find it, but all I saw was where you have "replied" to other people's post. That is okay and I understand that a lot of newcomers are shy about starting their thead, but I wanted to read your story. If you have placed in on a forum, could you tell me where to look?
Thanks, Sandi2
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
"I am wondering if and when I should do the same thing. I have largely dealt with it myself, and would be happy to just forget it and move forward.
Unfortunately, since in my snitch we NEVER have R discussions (last one was weeks ago when we had our last joint MC session) I would have to start an R discussion just to be able to say it.”
As you know by reading the DR book, you don’t need to be the one to bring the subject of the R up. If the W wants to discuss it, then she will be the one to bring the subject of the R up. I see you as being a lot more talkative than my H……if you talk at all, you would be more than my H (lol). I think it is hard for you not to talk about it even if you say you would be fine to move on and not have a R discussion about the OM. However, if you really believe that you could “forget it and move forward”………I think it could be healthier for you. You cannot drop the rope while hanging on to the OM! Some day, if your W is ready to talk about everything that led up to her turning to somebody else, then she will either bring up the subject herself or she will ask you to go to C again, b/c she apparently feels more comfortable having a third party there while she discusses things with you.
After going back and reading the first page to your story again, I believe you are correct in thinking that your W is still in the “don’t touch me” stage. However, she may feel the need to be touched or held b/c she is hurting, I don’t think she is ready for that person to be “you”. I agree with “Stillloveshim” in that she could have gone out of the room to have her cry. It is as if she wants you to see how miserable she is. However, I do not agree that you should try to talk to her about the R or try to hold her or any of that b/c she is telling you that she still wants space. By “space”, she means not ready for physical contact either. It does place you in a difficult spot! You are correct about her body language. I think you did okay by acknowledging that you did see her crying, but when you asked her if she was okay, that was inviting her or give her the chance to open up and talk if she wanted to…….but she reclined, so I think you did the right thing by not pursuing it. As you said in the beginning of your thread, you have been down that road and it does not work. Yes, it does seem as if you are doing all the opposite things she use to want from you, but I was the same way. I used to want my H to be attentive and do all those things until I had the EA and could not stand to be around him, much less him smothering me with his attention. That is why I want to remind you not to worry about NOT pursuing her since she use to want that. Remember, after being in an EA, her feelings toward you have changed (for the moment) and she thinks she is not “in love” with you right now. That is why you are “friend-ly” toward her, but you do not pursue her.
After this last R talk, I would leave it alone since she said what she did. I would move forward with your life and act “as if” like the DR book describes. Be attractive. How are you coming on buying those new clothes? Are you paying close attention to looking good and using that cologne when you are home?
You must show her that you are more fun to be around than the OM ever was. You are more interesting to be around. You have a hint of mystery about you since she doesn’t always know “every” detail of what you are up to. But remember never lie to her in trying to be mysterious!!! Even if it bursts the “mysterious” plan…..never lie!
I will talk more about this later, but have to start getting ready for work. Just wanted to comment on the deal with your sister and the baby situation. I think I have learned enough about men (but certainly not enough) to try to see all of that from your POV. However, I don’t think you knew that when you invited your sister to go with you that you might as well taken a knife and stuck it into the heart of your wife. I know, that sounds dramatic, but you have to realize, even if you can’t understand it, that we women think and feel about things so differently than you men do. If that had been my baby that my SIL sat up on that counter and wasn’t holding onto him and he fell and busted his little head…………it would have been one of the most difficult things to forgive and for you to ask “her” to go with you before you attached an invitation to your wife………that was seen by her as being cruel. I know you probably don’t understand that at all, do you? But I bet every woman on the board that read that post would tell you the same thing.
Let me point this out before I forget it. The thing you did “right” was planning on something to GAL. Plus it was okay to ask somebody to go with you and you did not have to ask your wife for permission and you did the “perfect” thing when she asked you if she wasn’t even invited to go…….you did attach an invitation to her….that part was perfect…..just like you are suppose to do. Now, this is where you went wrong. Of all the people in the world, why get the one person that she is probably still very, very sensitive about, to go with you? Why not get a male buddy? You should not get a female that is not related, by all means, but why the woman that caused your baby to get hurt? You see, that is how your wife looks at it. This lady is your sister and it was probably easier for you to forgive her b/c she was upset and remorseful about the baby getting hurt. But, I can almost guarantee you that is not how your wife feels and it is one of those things that only time will be able to really heal. In fact, they may never be as close as they once were. That is just the way we are. How old is your sister and does she have children of her own? It doesn’t really matter b/c to a mother, there is no excuse for anyone to sit a 7 month old baby up on a counter and take your hands off him. However, this isn’t really the issue here in the stitch, but I was trying to give you a hint of how women look at things like that.
I have just got to go, but I’m not through……lol. I’ll get back as soon as I can b/c I don't think I ever finished answering your question to me.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Holy Cow, Thinker -- that hits home. Maybe I'm on the accelerated plan, or something. Read your first post. Um, hello - my story much?
I realized last night that I'm in full-bore pursuit mode. Had an R talk on the phone and came down with acute verbal diarrhea.
Gotta stop.
It's weird though because I GAL'd a bit yesterday and had lunch with a friend I hadn't seen in a while. He's a very religious person (I'm not -- opposites attract, what do you know?) and noticed immediately that I'm not wearing my wedding ring. (She took hers off and I thought well I'll show her!)
I talked to him about my intent to fight for the marriage so that, at the end of the road, no matter what that end is, I can look myself in the mirror and know that I left it all on the field come what may.
But now looking at your post, I having a tough time figuring out where the line is -- how can fight for my marriage AND be detached?
I'm just going to keep following your posts. They're good ones, even if confounding at times.
Okay.......I have about 5 minutes left (lol). See, some women and get ready fast!
Pursing for men, I believe, is very natural b/c that is the way God made them. He made women to be "responders" to the man. Again, this is my belief about it. I think for some of us W's that is why it is somewhat difficult to initiate sex b/c some of us are more responder than pursuers.
Anyway, that is why "detachment" is difficult for men. It is for women who are the LBS, also, but in a different way. Men are "fixers" and want to pursue, fix, and get this thing over with and move on!! I dare say that 90% of the people that come on the DB board does not truly understand the differences in "detachment", "going dark", and "dropping the rope". Most don't even understand the principal of lovingly detaching. That is why I have started using the term to "pull back" some instead of detaching b/c a lot of folks carry it too far and then they discover it isn't working b/c they cut themselves off from the M. It is not cutting yourself off from the M! It is pulling back and giving your S some breathing room, some "me" tiome (for them)......just move back and give them some room. Why is that so hard for some folks to understand? I'm nost saying that either of you men here have or haven't done that, I'm just trying to make a point. You can be kind, polite, charming, friendly, and even act loving in your tone of voice, your words and your attitude. When there is no pressure put on the wife by the H, it takes a huge burden off her and she begins is able to relax instead of being drawed up in a knot waiting for the next "speech" to come or for him to try to be in her personal space all the time.
Okay, my H just came ih and told me I'm late (lol). Got to go. I want to finish taking to both of you men if that is okay.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I think that in my mind, this last discussion with my W, which was really very low key and in which she clearly stated that she "needs space" and "Not to be smothered" gives me the mental permission I need (from myself) to stay detached.
Dr. Hemlock To me, loving detachment means:
- Not planning dates - No R discussions - Not initiating any physical affection - hugs, snuggling, etc - No ML - Not questioning her about her schedule, whereabouts, etc
- but -
- Staying friendly and upbeat. I do still enjoy her company. - Continuing to eat dinner together in the evenings - Continuing to help her out with things / run errunds / do my full load of chores, etc. (She has continued to do this stuff for me as well.) - Continuing with small friendly gestures - bringing her a cup of coffee if I get one for myself, etc. (She has continued to do the same thing for me.) - Being cheerful and happy if and when we go out as a couple (mutual friends houses, etc) - Planning and following through on fun family activities - bike rides, etc. - Complimenting her on her clothes, etc.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
I think that would work, if not, I posted my story in MLC titled "My H is having a MLC at 34....can we make it?"
I think things are better now. My therapist and DB coach think so too, but I'm being incredibly cautious....ready to go back to LRT or going dark as much as I can with our 3 year old S. It's still very up and down. But please, give me everything you got.
