I think that our society today is lacking. We are a throw away world, where people need instant gratification, There is no stick-to-it attitude. If it's too hard or not all about them, its time to move on.
Back in the day of our parents, or even when I was married a hundred years ago, your word was your bond, a handshake sealed a deal, you meant what you said and said what you meant. And if you took a vow, you kept it. You never gave up, it wasnt an option.
My mother was an alcoholic who made my father's life hell. When I was older, I would say to him, why do you stay here, how do you stand it? He said, I promised and I love her, its that simple.
Among my readings, one controversial woman wrote that marriage was a way to ensure that a man would propagate...meaning...there was no DNA testing in the past. In order to ensure that his offspring were his, a man betrothed a women. She goes on to say that as much as a man is meant to spread his seed that a woman is designed to gather it. Diversity occurs by multiple seeding and multiple gathering. Hence, genetically, humans are not 'coded' to be monagamous.
She goes on to say that in many species, the female stays with family/parents and copulates with male visitors.
In humans, the sexual fire lasts about 1 1/2-2 years before the sizzle goes out. We are also the only species that has sex for other reasons than reproduction.
Perhaps we are not genetically designed to be with one person forever.
Perhaps with the upward progression of women in society, there is no need for them to be dependent on men/marriage to survive.
Perhaps...the moral fibre of our society has eroded. It's OK to take steroids if you hit 70 homers a year...it's OK to get fellated in the White House if the economy is good...you can trample people to death for a sale at Walmart.
Affairs....divorce...piece of cake.
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
SC, believe me, I am sure there were plenty of times my dad wished he could pawn my mother off on someone.
FIB, I agree, I think the world is going to he@l in a handbasket. There is no moral compass anymore. Whatever makes you happy at the moment is where its at.
There are now five women and one man where I work whose spouses are having affairs. Sad.
I won't lie, after my experiences in my M,I have lost my faith in marriage as an institution.
The mistake I think we make is thinking that the wedding license makes us secure. We rely on the paper and the law to ensure our marriages instead of realizing we have to constantly work on ourselves and our marriages.
My H and I were both older when we got married (I turned 30 on our honeymoon, he was 32), and we experienced the same issues that people who got married younger do. We're smart, hardworking people who made a conscious commitment to each other, and we still found ourselves in this situation.
What's the real culprit? Believing that our happiness relies on someone or something outside of ourselves. And how real are we, really, with each other? Do we communicate truthfully and without judgment? Do we hold grudges? How do we treat our spouses when they act in a way we don't like? Are we passive aggressive or moody, OR do we state clearly what we don't like and then let it go...detach?
I don't believe in soul mates or "one" right person. I think that perpetuates a myth and keeps the outward focus going. I have to choose and rechoose my H every single day. I have to work on myself and accept the responsibility of speaking up and asking for what I want every single day. Is it easy? No. But I am not a victim because I choose to be in this marriage with this man.
I don't think the institution is outdated; I think people just don't have a very accurate understanding of the work and stamina required in a M.
SD
Me: 40 H: 43 H had EA from 2/06-9/06 Bomb 5/06 Piecing since 9/2006 3/2008: Boundary setting 7/2009: Boundary crossing~dropped my own bomb. 8/2010: Marriage finally on track!
Two comments. First, the whole "fire sizzles out" after a year or two may be a statistical commonality. But it does not do justice to the many marriages that seem to have passion in them long after that time period.
Second, but related, is that marriage and our emotions are like the sea; with an ebb and a flow. I have "fallen" out of love with my h in the past and "fallen" back in love with him later. I recall during his med residency being apart so much, that I did not feel "in love" at all. But I also felt I needed to just stand in the "heart's doorframe" waiting for the storm to pass....and it did.
So even if someone feels the fire is out, it could be that the embers are covered, and can be restored, or the fire restarted, etc. All I mean is that I think some waves of emotions go both ways and sometimes we have to wait it out. That's not really a DB issue as people here usually have bigger things on their minds/hearts. But I don't put that much stock into the whole "Fizzles out after 2 years and that's that".
Also had an older professor in college who told me long ago that his marriage had less "fire" in it, but more passion and that it showed in other ways. Said he got more pleasure from holding her hand during a walk than he used to get as a young man, for then, it was all about sex. Now, he said, it's about a deep and lasting love, and he found that more romantic.
So did I, although I didn't understand that the way I do now. Today when h and I, or any couple who has gone thru some fire, takes a walk and holds hands, it means far deeper things than it could mean in our 20s. Make sense?
(( j ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
If you step back, the ring...the wedding license...is a legal contract. We stand before friends, family and G-d and we promise a whole heckuva lot to another person.
Contracts DO get broken. People DO change. Perhaps, it is the way we go around doing things.
As per SD, there is no doubt that from childhood onward, marriage is portrayed as something it isn't. Cinderella, studly princes that kiss women that have been sleeping for a hundred years (what kinda morning breath is that?), and they all live happily every after. We are saturated with a picture of handsome men and drop dead women tending to each others needs and dying holding each other in their matrimonial bed.
Huh?
Men are taught that boy meets girl....girl meets someone else....boy fights back and in the end, he always wins. Good, cocky and funny defeat evil and we run off with the hot babe in the end.
Huh?
The author I talked about above discusses how marriage...for women...is the wedding. They meet a man....attraction...sex....and then they pursue the commitment. It doesn't take long for them to see after a bit that marriage, in many cases, works out better for the man. Disillusionment sets in. Attraction fails. Sexual desire is lost.
Women have fought hard enough over decades to get to where they now...for the most part....they can out compete men without difficulty. In my own sphere, medicine, the majority of applicants are now women. We spend hours at the workplace and spend more time with others than our spouses.
Will classes truly help?
Don't we all say here that marriage is a choice? Perhaps there is a new bird out there. Let's call it serial monogamy. Fall in love with someone. Stay with them. When it gets boring, dump them and go for the next.
Is excitement and novelty superior to longterm commitment and familiarity?
Is a 'rock my world' orgasm that is more exciting because it is novel...worth changing up your partner for every few years? Is life meant for living and fun?
Who is right....us or them? Are we...the LBS'ers...right? Is forcing someone to stay in a stale M or loveless M...right? If they are truly unhappy....why should they stay with us? Do we have the right to rationalize away their behavior if ours was not Prince Charming-like or Helen of Troy-ish?
FIB (PS..the views and questions posed are not necessarily those of the poster)
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
I'll say one thing. Rationalizations are one scary thing people do when they are about to do/have already done/ something they KNOW is bad/selfish/plain wrong.
I'm so good at them I have to carefully monitor myself and come to places like this to see if I'm slippin' down the slope... Interesting posts...
(( j ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
