Why is it so threatening to them that we want to be a team together. It's not about one-up-manship, it's about turn adn turn about. We pick them up when they are down and vice versa.
Why is it so hard for them?
** Purple
As soon as you trust yourself you will know how to live. Goethe
So.H's cousin and wife were over. They were telling me some stories about how interfering/controlling C's mom can be (H's aunt)...she calls them on the weekend to make sure they are "being responsible" and getting up when they "should", and just weird stuff like that. And it was mostly a funny conversation..just talking about mother-inlaw stuff...
Well H missed part of it because he was gone. So the next night, he asked me how it all went, and I was telling him about the convo...and I was laughing about it, and I said, man, Aunt is crazy! I can't believe she calls them in the morning to see if they got up yet! [these people are 28 yrs old, married, living on their own, employed, and have a kid]
So he of course, as in every conversation, has to take the opposite view. And he's like, well there's two sides to every story. I'm like...there is no other side to a mom calling her adult children to monitor their daily behavior. That's just weird. And he's like yeah, but they're lazy sometimes. And I say...but they are ADULTS. It's THEIR LIFE. It's wildly inappropriate for her to tell them how to act, even if they ARE lazy, which who's to say that anyway. ["lazy" is the single worst thing you can say about a person in his family. Lazy is worse than...alcoholic, for instance, and their definition of "lazy" is ridiculous] And he says, see, you always take the side of the lazy slobs in this world, the small people, because you can't stand it when someone tells you what to do.
So he begins his lecture. The beginning goes something like this..."you listen to me for a minute...and maybe you can learn something about life."
His summary of this entire situation, which is explained to me as if I am three years old...(What I have learned about life is that this entire family is narcissistic and insane)
First of all, Aunt and Uncle are the parents....they don't LIKE the way cousin and wife are. Don't I get that? They are big liberals...and Aunt and Uncle don't like that. They are trying to change them....by hinting. Hello?? See...I can't stand that, because I don't want anyone to change me. Because I don't like him trying to change me into being a better worker.
Secondly...Cousin's W has parents. So of course, Aunt and Uncle are jealous of that. [wow]
Thirdly...Uncle has done a lot for us, for years. [this is very true, and I am very very appreciative of everything he's done for us and I've told him so many times]. What has Cousin's W ever done for me?? Nothing. So maybe I ought to take a step back and remember that...[so we do not agree or disagree with anyone based on what is right or wrong, just on what they've done for us] I am using VERY STRONG LANGUAGE. I am using the word "crazy." I have no right to call Aunt "crazy" when they've done things for us. [is anyone else thinking what I was thinking at this point?] Anyway, he told me that is NOT something I should ever say.
This all went on for a while...then I said, oh okay, so...it's really awful to call someone crazy? Because you tell me I am crazy, messed up in the head, psycho, have mental problems, sick in the head....at least once a week. I guess that means I haven't done enough for you? Because if I've done enough for you then you wouldn't be allowed to call me crazy. So..I'm crazy, I don't do enough for you, I'm on the side of all the lazy slobs in the world...so I'm basically not as good as your family...is that it?
And he nodded and said...there ya go.
So I walked out of the room. Then he came around later and tried to chat me up and I was like...whatever...and he yelled "Well I'm sorry you're so MISERABLE!" I thought, no you're not.
So I pretty much have nothing to say to him. Last night he was all buddy buddy...offered to take the kids to the country this weekend so I could have time for myself. Got up this morning and made a hot breakfast for everyone...told me he thought I should be the one who deals with S12 getting up in the mornings and going to bed at night, so he doesn't yell at him...("since you think I do that")...that that would be best for the family. I've noticed he's into using the phrase "the family" the last couple of days.
I'm just like, yeah, great, whatever you say. I just absolutely don't care anymore.
So he of course, as in every conversation, has to take the opposite view. And he's like, well there's two sides to every story.
I am very new to this site, and am trying to figure out my own M. But, what I'm learning from several different resources is that, you have to choose our battles wisely. Why argue about something that can ruin your marriage but not heal it. My H is extremely sensitive about things lately, including his fam, but I'm learning to not fight over things that do not matter. That is the Cousin's M, their problem, don't bring it in to yours. Even if you feel you are 100% right, suck it up and say You know what, I think you're right. Maybe they do need someone on their backs until they break out of the laziness. Even if you don't 100% believe what you are saying, it shows your H that his opinion matters to you.
Sometimes when we are adament about an opinion we have the H takes it saying his opinion doesn't matter, or he is always wrong in our eyes and therefore he and his feelings don't matter to you.
I'm working on my M also, but several books and CD's that I have bought all state this in one way or another.
Choose your battles wisely, will this argument bring us closer or farther apart.
I hope I was a lil' helpful. Enjoy your day.
M:28 H:30 DD-9| DD-7| Baby- Due 11/10 T-14 | M-8
10/08- Bomb 4/09- Failed attempt at Marriage Fitness Program 3/10- WH moved out. 7/10- Informed me he's filing in Aug
Even if you feel you are 100% right, suck it up and say You know what, I think you're right. Maybe they do need someone on their backs until they break out of the laziness. Even if you don't 100% believe what you are saying, it shows your H that his opinion matters to you.
Hi. I realize if you're new to this site, you haven't been able to follow my particular situation....which has been ongoing for some time. I think you give good advice...for some sitches, when arguing just becomes a matter of habit, perhaps.
But I actually shared that particular story for a reason. This is the ongoing battle cry from my H and his parents and the rest of their enmeshed family...for my entire marriage. Everyone who doesn't do what they say, how they say, when they say, without any opinions of their own...is "lazy." My husband was told last summer that he wasn't pulling his weight at the family company or taking care of our property...while he was going through radiation treatment for cancer. That's "lazy" in his family.
My H's worldview is that it is his DUTY to change people into what he wants them to be. That is "helping"...that is "love." Listening, empathizing or actually helping them by doing what they ASK is just...unheard of. We have been going around and around about this for over a year. Last spring he seemed to finally "hear" me. Then he got sick. Now he's well. Now it's the same old same old.
So. This IS our battle. This story I told is just illustrating the way he looks at EVERYTHING. That other people have the right and duty to nag, control, complain, and criticize to make the person in question be how they want them to be.
Unless it's him. He can do whatever he wants.
Anyway, I do appreciate you trying to help. But I think my marriage is already ruined.
Breakaway....it makes me cringe and nearly cry to read your updates....but I read them every day. Why? Because I'm praying for you and I know you are stepping toward a new life....not sure if with him or without but I suspect without.
Whatever strength you need to garner, I pray you are getting closer all the time.
I'm so happy though that after your last post you said you just absolutely don't care anymore....it shows in your words that you are getting so much closer to not caring at all (about his abusive words or their meaning) and hopefully that will mean you walking on eggshells less and less, as you begin to not care what he says.
You must be one tough chicka to have survived all of this, thus far.....
Hi. I realize if you're new to this site, you haven't been able to follow my particular situation....which has been ongoing for some time. I think you give good advice...for some sitches, when arguing just becomes a matter of habit, perhaps.
I appologize, I haven't been able to read all of your posts yet. I will catch up. I'm stopping by for moral support. And you are right, you don't have to stand for it from him. Glad you are detaching.
M:28 H:30 DD-9| DD-7| Baby- Due 11/10 T-14 | M-8
10/08- Bomb 4/09- Failed attempt at Marriage Fitness Program 3/10- WH moved out. 7/10- Informed me he's filing in Aug
yeah I also cringe...I grew up in an alcoholic home with a highly functioning rageaholic father. It was hard to admit he was an alcoholic though it was obvious, b/c he didn't drink at work and was a public official, with a great job, (stressful one though).
For years our happiness at home (there were nine kids in our family) was determined almost exclusively by the moods of my father. We'd be playing wildly and when he came home we'd immediate hide and shut up waiting to see what his mood was like. THAT determined how the evening went.
Then we got older and would fight back and it was tumultuous to say the least. Yes, years later he went into recovery and I actually got close to him (this was AFTER my mom left him btw....and was the ONLY reason he went to AA as far as I'm concerned) and that was a big important thing to me. Then he died from liver cancer, and that is related to drinking.
Don't let your life, and the lives of your children, be run by him. Who cares if he has a good day now and then? Sure, it makes THAT day better but it also makes life even more unpredictable and that does some werid things to your psyche. I know my little sister felt so unsure of her decision making skills in life b/c she could not trust her perceptions, so if dad got drunk and violent one night but "forgot" it the next morning...it did not get discussed. So you had to kind of wonder as a kid, if that had actually happened and whether it was so bad after all, cuz no one was discussing it...make sense? Always walking around the elephant in the living room. FWIW, my dad was brilliant and well educated and made a good impression when sober, and always had a job with prestige, etc. Mom didn't want to call him an alcoholic b/c she thought that gave him "an excuse" for his moral failings to call it a disease. Great. Whatever. Just stalled us and slowed us down in our own growth.
If your life were a novel, who would be writing it? How is it going in this chapter and what would you like to happen in the next chapter?
From my view, you should be the author of your life. I hope you choose to be. Make it go the way you want it to go. Show your kids that they are to be the authors of their lives.
((( j )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
But I actually shared that particular story for a reason. This is the ongoing battle cry from my H and his parents and the rest of their enmeshed family...for my entire marriage. Everyone who doesn't do what they say, how they say, when they say, without any opinions of their own...is "lazy." My husband was told last summer that he wasn't pulling his weight at the family company or taking care of our property...while he was going through radiation treatment for cancer. That's "lazy" in his family.
My H's worldview is that it is his DUTY to change people into what he wants them to be. That is "helping"...that is "love." Listening, empathizing or actually helping them by doing what they ASK is just...unheard of. [snip]
This story I told is just illustrating the way he looks at EVERYTHING. That other people have the right and duty to nag, control, complain, and criticize to make the person in question be how they want them to be.
Reading your post today I was reminded of one of my favorite passages from "Banished Knowledge" by Alice Miller.
Quote:
It is only through the experience of being loved and cherished that the child can ever discern cruelty as such, be aware of it, and resist it. Without this experience he has no way of knowing that there is anything in the world except cruelty; the child will automatically submit to it and, years later, when as an adult he accedes to power, will exert it as being perfectly normal behavior.
