Do you know WHY she wants out? Has she spelled it all out for you nice and clear? I wonder if she's taken the time to do the work to understand how she got to where she is.
Don't be a martyr. Never ever. Of course, you don't have handcuffs and shackes (or do you) to stop her from leaving. I think it's interesting that she's angry with you for "not letting her go." She has legs and a key to the door and the car. You see, she is angry because in order to stay, she has to face all kinds of s**t and say things to you that might hurt you. She doesn't want to hurt you. She wants the easy way out (divorce). So, she's trying to "sell" you on why "letting her go" is a good idea. F that. Tell her to go sell crazy somewhere else. You love her and you want her to be with you (I'm assuming that, but perhaps when you start working on yourself, you might learn that you don't necessarily love this woman in the way that is necessary to keep a marriage going).
Stand by what you feel. Stay strong. Be a MAN--solid and sure of yourself. She'll love it, even if she doesn't show it and starts kicking and screaming like a little girl. Some people use anger to get others to do what they want. In your case, she wants you to make it easy for her to divorce you. You are her man and she needs you to show it and stop her from leaving. She is giving YOU the power over her decision by asking you to let her go.
She clearly has issues to work on, too. If she knew herself and took the time to understand her situation, she would not be asking you to let her go. She would know exactly why she is leaving and she would be able to articulate it clearly so that there is no doubt about it. It's not her fault - she just needs the tools to grow. It's not your place to tell her that, by the way. You have to focus on YOU only and become a man that inspires her to see you and also look within herself.
Your MC better be pro-marriage and not some lazy schlub or one of older theory that takes the common cues (wife convinced she's out the door already, H who can't make it up to her...) and just helps everyone feel OK about divorcing. If so, find someone else. You won't know until you go.
Dr. H, Stand up for yourself and the good things you have to offer this woman and your kids. List them out for yourself. Being a self-assured man is the most attractive thing to a woman.
If she thinks that dragging your kids through divorce is going to somehow be "ultimately good for them," she is KIDDING HERSELF. That is, unless you are abusive or an addict. I'm hoping not, right?
Your situation is definitely very common. As it is common, I do not think it is hopeless. Apparently she has not filed or anything. The "only" thing she has done so far is dropping the bomb and moving to a different room.
The interesting thing you mentioned about her was that she said she was angry. Angry at who? You? What is she blaming you for? Not letting her go? Well, to me it sounds more like she is angry at herself. There is part of her that wants to leave you, but there is also a part that is holding her back. When she decided to leave, she felt happy. Now that she realizes all the complications of that and maybe some of her feelings that put doubt in her, she feels anger directed at herself for not being able to follow through. So to me it looks like there is some hope if you find the right way of dealing with it.
So here are a few things I would suggest to you. Ignore everything she says right now. You simply do not know which part of her says it, so it is better to not let it affect you. In a way you have to let go of her. You have to let go of your anger at her, you have to be you again, the person you used to be when you met her for the first time. GAL and PMA help with that. So keep working on that. Do positive self-talk. Tell yourself how great the world is and that you will be OK no matter what. It will take some time to settle in. Do not initiate any R talk. If she does, keep it short and to the point. Do not defend yourself, but validate and acknowledge her feelings. Try to be as kind and compassionate as you can.
Hang in there. You can do this. You will be a better person at the end whether she stays or leaves. Become that better person for yourself and your kids.
AN
M43 W45, M17 S9 D6 Bomb: 11/11/08 EA: 10/26-12/31/08 ? Retrouvaille: 2/13-2/15/09 Healed, but still heading for D My situation
The interesting thing you mentioned about her was that she said she was angry. Angry at who? You? What is she blaming you for? Not letting her go? Well, to me it sounds more like she is angry at herself. There is part of her that wants to leave you, but there is also a part that is holding her back. When she decided to leave, she felt happy. Now that she realizes all the complications of that and maybe some of her feelings that put doubt in her, she feels anger directed at herself for not being able to follow through. So to me it looks like there is some hope if you find the right way of dealing with it.
I'm not sure that's the interpretation she / I have. She is angry, she says, because having reached her decision and achieving peace with it, I went it screwed it all up by giving her bad feelings again.
Her claims: She's not afraid of the possibility of being alone in the future. She's not interested in another emotional relationship, but right now she's very interested in exciting s*xual relationships if they happen to happen. She is consenting to counseling NOT because she expects it to work FOR OUR MARRIAGE but because she thinks / hopes it will help me deal with her decision so that we don't drag our kids into it.
She has this notion that we'll be this great divorced couple, co-parenting, taking our kids to dinner together, etc. When I suggested I might have some negative feelings that would lead me not to want to go to dinner with my ex-W, she said that sounded immature -- don't I want the best for the kids?
So what I'm confronted with is this: If I was a real man, who wanted her to be happy, I would (a) let her go now and (b) maintain a good relationship with her afterwards to make things easier on the kids.
And, again, the logic is clear. But I'm bugged by the assumption that somehow I'm supposed to swallow my grief for everyone else's benefit -- and that this just so happens to work out in the best possible way for her.
So -- do I man up and say "Yes"? That's the question that's on my mind.
So what I'm confronted with is this: If I was a real man, who wanted her to be happy, I would (a) let her go now and (b) maintain a good relationship with her afterwards to make things easier on the kids.
You're not stopping her from doing anything, it seems she wants you to be the bad guy. If she wants to file she can she doesn't need your permission, tell her that.
I know my wife when she wanted to file she wanted us to sit with the kids and tell them this was OUR decision. I said noway I'll be there and support you but this is NOT our decision and I won't lie, and a C we went to for the kids agreed with me.
My wife said the same things about being friends I told I don't see that happening friendly yes friends no.
Me:40 W: 39 T: 17 years M: 15 years S-9 D-6 D final 11/10/2009
"We are all faced with a series of great opportunities brilliantly disguised as insoluble problems."
Did you read my last post? A "real man" doesn't smooth out the red carpet to let his woman pursue sex with other men. It's not your job to make it easy for her to go have fun. She's not looking for just sex, by the way. It's not like wanting a slice of chocolate cake. She wants external validation that she's wanted, chosen, loveable. You can give her those things if you fight and work through the s**t.
What did you do in your marriage that allows you to sit here and actually contemplate being her doormat? Fess up.
I read your last post. I don't think I'm doing a very good job communicating here -- surprise!
What did I do? As I put in my first post, I blew off her requests that we go to counseling. I assumed that, if I ignored it, it would go away. Well, I was almost right -- I ignored it and SHE went away.
She doesn't want to leave to have sex. All she was trying to say was that, at this point in time, she's not interested in another "relationship" -- marital or otherwise -- but is open to just being a sexual person.
She maintains that this issue is a RESULT of her decision and my distance in the past year, not the CAUSE of the decision -- and knowing her I'm willing to believe that's true (though I am scared that it's not, but that's another hangup).
She wants to leave because "I am done." There's "nothing left." She is "empty inside." She waited and waited and agonized and suffered (like the WAW on the WAW support board) and finally was pushed over the line but a snotty e-mail I sent. The straw that broke the camel's back. And once she committed to the decision, she was happy.
And that's where we're at.
First C session in less than 5 hours. We'll see. We'll see.
OK-So you didn't beat her children or kill her puppy. (The question was sort of a trick question to get you to see that becoming the doormat is not doing anyone any favors.) You hid from your relationship out of fear. That's forgiveable, even though it hurt her tremendously. You can win her back. She needs to understand you better so that she can find the compassion to love you again. She is focused on her own pain and hurt.
DO NOT BELIEVE that she just wants sex and no relationship. What-EV. She's just trying to weasle out of your marriage without having to hurt your feelings or feel bad about pursuing the next guy WHO IS NOT GOING TO MAKE HER WHOLE OR SOOTHE HER PAIN. No one can make us whole or complete us or fix what's wrong within us. Until everybody gets with that, divorce and cheating are going to go on and on and on forever.
I'm glad you made it here.
Your C session is going to hurt because your W is still in walk-away mode. She's going to say anything she can to get you to let her go and to convince the C that it is O-V-E-R. She thinks (MISTAKENLY) that happiness is in the next moment of life. She wants relief from her pain. She thinks that she's going to find it "out there."
Whatever she says, keep it together and stay your ground. Don't be the doopty-doo guy who is going to say, "OK, dear. Whatever will make you happy. Go f**k other men. It's OK. I was wrong all these years and I'm worthless to you. Some other no-name guy out there deserves your love more than I do. Even though I'm the father of your children." PLEASE don't be that guy. Sit straight and tall. Look her in the eyes. Tell her that under no circumstances are you OK with your marriage ending, with her ML with other men, with the destruction of your family. Calmly, assuredly. Tell her you will do anything to save it, because that is the truth. You'll have to go through all kinds of pain to save it. And I believe you will, if you accept that you must become aware of yourself and work on changing you.
You are a Nice Guy, I'm pretty sure. That doesn't mean that you are bad, or you are some kind of villain. It means that you are a product of a society and family that hasn't known how to rear MEN. Go to that website: nomoremrniceguy.com. Read the site, but more importantly, read some of the online community posts. You might find some strength from the perspectives of men who have found themselves.
I'm hoping you can get a charge of "I AM WORTH ALL THAT I WANT" attitude before you go in that C room tonight. That is not to say that you shouldn't show remorse for denying her what she needed all these years. You recognize it, own it, say and MEAN that you are sorry, and commit to fixing it. If she says, "Too little, too late," then you say, "It's never too late. And you'll never know if that statement is really true unless you give us and our family this chance."
Come on, man. Get angry and fight for your marriage. No doormat BS. No lame-a$$ doopty-doo.
I'm not sure that's the interpretation she / I have. She is angry, she says, because having reached her decision and achieving peace with it, I went it screwed it all up by giving her bad feelings again.
Her claims: She's not afraid of the possibility of being alone in the future. She's not interested in another emotional relationship, but right now she's very interested in exciting s*xual relationships if they happen to happen. She is consenting to counseling NOT because she expects it to work FOR OUR MARRIAGE but because she thinks / hopes it will help me deal with her decision so that we don't drag our kids into it.
I understand that that is what she says. Nevertheless she got angry and blamed you for something. If she was so sure that leaving was the right decision, how could you possibly screw her up? If she had already checked out, why does she not simply leave? Nothing is stopping her.
I personally doubt the positive effects of MC especially if one person has no interest in it. All you do is talk about the past, the hurting, and it will remind the person who wants to leave that it is in fact the right decision to leave. So be careful with that. I think all you want to do in couseling is to understand, validate and acknowledge her feelings. Ensure that you and the C do not gang up on her.
I would let her know your boundaries. Let her know what your interests are post-divorce. Let her know that you are not interested in a friendship with her, because you love her. It might pi$$ her off, she might get angry, but those are her feelings, she owns them, not you.
Originally Posted By: DrHemlock
So -- do I man up and say "Yes"?
Is that what you want? Do you think it will improve your situation? If the answer is "no" to any of the questions, do not do it.
M43 W45, M17 S9 D6 Bomb: 11/11/08 EA: 10/26-12/31/08 ? Retrouvaille: 2/13-2/15/09 Healed, but still heading for D My situation
AN: Good comment. Good capture, too -- I'm not interested in friendship. Frankly I fail to see the point. As long as there's no conflict in front of the kids, I don't see why I should have to be a pleasant fellow about the whole thing.
Had to get out of the house. Had what I think is a panic attack thinking about the implications of today's first MC session. 3 hours to go. I've never been this scared in my life, not even in Iraq.
