Maria mou, you are not back to square one. You're a different person now. You're so much wiser and so much stronger. Take a break, you really need one, take good care of yourself, regroup, rest, don't think, don't make plans (yet), just be.
I wish I could be there to give you a real (((((HUG)))))).
I ask not for a lighter burden, but for broader shoulders ____________________________________________________ M 46 H 45 D 17 M/T 23 Bomb #1 (ILYBNILWY) 12.06 Bomb #2 (OW) 12.07 Bomb #3 (chose OW over M) 9.08
Hey StrongMilW.. well heres a bit more on the Venus retrograde for Pisceans...
Venus is retrograde from March 6-April 17. As the planet of love and values, Venus retrograde periods are periods during which we re-assess what—and who—we value. It is a period that most astrologers consider inopportune for getting married or starting a new relationship. Major financial undertakings are not advised during this period as well. Venus retrograde cycles are good times for creating budgets and financial plans, and for re-thinking our personal relationships. Old friends and lovers may re-appear, perhaps complicating current relationships. We are called upon to deal with relationship issues from the past. Events occur that seem fated or pre-destined. It can be a real challenge getting close to a lover during this period of time. Unorthodox, experimental, and non-intimate relationships may be favored. Relationships that have been especially challenging may come to an end during this cycle. However, strong relationships will survive it, even if there are a few bumps and bruises along the way. For singles, this is a good time for "eyes wide open" or experimental dating. It is not a time when people recognize the need for another person to complete them, or some people may be questioning whether they are with partners who actually fulfill them. This period is good for re-evaluating our relationship needs; but, again, major love decisions are best saved for after the cycle ends in April.
.. so there you go! Hey K.. hope you survived your weekend alone. xxx
I'm so sorry to read your posts, but like many of the others, I'm not surprised.
About this reply, all I can say is buckle up as it is a bit of a long one.
As a man who had to go through IC myself for several months before I could even begin to think about admitting my own faults and flaws, the only thing that surprises me is the expectation of others out there who are stunned and shocked by your H's inability to move forward faster.
There is no way he can do any of the things you are asking him to do b/c he has no idea how to love anyone or anything.
The man doesn't know how to love. He doesn't love himself and while he thinks he loves you and your children, he can only love all of you to the best of his ability. As long as he is incapable of loving himself, he will never be able to be the right man for you, Kalni.
Does he feel guilt? Yes. Low self-esteem? Absolutely. I can say all of this w/out any hesitation. Why? Because I was very much like him.
I lived over 35 years of my life HATING who I was. Oh, I masked it greatly, but deep down, I didn't like me. What did that mean? I sabotaged relationships b/c I felt I was unworthy to be loved fully and completely. I worked whenever I could so I could feel "important" in the "real world" even though it meant neglecting things at home.
When did this cycle stop for me? When I went to IC...several months into IC! I fought like crazy in my early IC sessions against any notion that I was messed up in any way. I was the victim of my life, or at least that is what I was telling everyone.
In time, I came to realize that I was afraid of rejection and losing the things I held dearly. I was still hurting as a grown man from my parent's divorce, my father's absence throughout most of my life and my mother's own issues, including her nervous breakdown when I was in high school.
All of these things took my ability to love and shoved them into the deepest recesses of my heart where I was only capable of uncovering them through working w/a C that looked to challenge me and not tell me what I wanted to hear.
My story is too similar to your H's for me to not expand on him. Does it make it right? No, but it is what it is. Does your H have the ability to be who you want him to be? Absolutely. However, he can't do anything to speed up the process as he too has a lot of buried emotions he has to uncover.
There is such a wonderful positive here b/c he IS in IC! He has only been in two sessions and he'll need at least another 4 or so before he can start to comprehend what he needs to do for himself to be happy - which in turn will allow him to start to be the "better man" you are seeking.
His work is not selfish, but a status symbol for him. He feels accepted, valued, and "loved" b/c of his job. That is why he clings to it. He feels he is defined by his job. He doesn't know yet that he's defined by his actions and not his job or banking account.
If the IC is challening him, he will learn these things. He will be the better man. He just won't do it in the next week to 10 days, so if you aren't ready for a long ride, then there is nothing he can do.
My thought would be similar to what Ali has said and I know it will be met w/a ton of opposition which I think is unfortunate. I wouldn't ask you to throw your arms around him and "fake" emotions, but instead it reads to me that at times you are quick to dismiss any changes he's making.
My XW did the same thing. I went to therapy, broke down walls that were decades old, met privately w/both of my parents and discussed why I had such a rough time growing up, and learned how to be a better man, husband, and father throughout my entire D process. What did my XW say? She either said "too little too late" or "I see no change in you at all and you are the same selfish a-hole you've always been."
That stung deeper than anyone would ever know. Here I was working on me - like she "demanded" I do - and as I got healthier and made progress, there she was to put me down and tell me whatever I did wasn't good enough. I lived my life telling myself I wasn't good enough and now, after doing some of the most difficult and painful work on me I've ever had the guts to do, the woman I loved was telling me I wasn't good enough. Absolutely crushing.
He met w/you to tell you about his going to IC to work on him. Isn't this what you've been asking for? Didn't you want him to change for the better? The thing that is frustrating on my end is he's doing what you wanted, but yet, you still aren't happy.
I know it is going to always be your decision on things, but could you consider treating him w/some empathy as he is taking the only positive step he can to try and save your M? Until he unearths his deep, dark secrets, you two will always be worlds apart.
It takes time to dig to the center of the Earth. You can't expect him to get there in two sessions...or even 5 or six, for that matter.
Do what you need to do for you, but I will ask you to think about viewing him w/empathy instead of anger. He is working and he is moving forward. He is emotionally frozen and uncapable of completely giving himself up to you or anyone else.
I WAS HIM! I WAS EMOTIONALLY FROZEN TOO!
He wants to change, but his change will take time.
Picture yourself laying by the pool working on your tan and your H is in the water. He starts splashing water on you and you get irritated. You get up to find out he's splashing water on you b/c he's drowning, not b/c he's trying to piss you off.
Does that change your opinion? Can you use empathy to view him as a drowning man instead of an a-hole?
Just my thoughts as they relate to the path I've personally walked myself.
Whatever you decide I'm with you. I hope you know that. I just wanted to give you perspective from his point of view. I'm not defending him in any way, but merely trying to shed some light on why he does what he does.
In the end, you will make the call. I just want you to have all the information before you make any decision.
Much love is coming to you w/this post and I hope you were able to feel it, my dear lady.
Thanks guys... Rob, I dont have anymore patience. I am not trying to punish him. And remember, unlike you, HE left me, he went on seeking happiness away from me. I waited and waited and waited. I suggested IC/MC more than a year ago. I was then "the crazy".I gave up on "us". He came back. "Willing and able". Yeah, right...!!! I am lonely, tired, unmotivated... He wont even fight for me, fight for time, beg for understanding... I would beg steel and lie to get a second chance if I loved the person I hurt deeply.
I am slowing down, regrouping at the moment. I am trying to deal with my anger.
You are spot on with that you said. I understand everything and I think you are right. I just cant find it in me anymore to wait and hope...
Did you look at the links that Smartcookie posted on her thread? I thought the one about passive-aggressive behavior sounded a lot like your husband. Especially in the part about not finishing sentences.
And these people need to get over any idea that you are "scary". I keep thinking about that day he went crazy yelling at your son and you were hiding in the closet. He's scared of you? Not likely. The more I read, the more you and Smartcookie seem to be dealing with the same kind of problem.
Sara, I was hiding not to inerfere and have him blame me for "sabotaging" him. We have been stuck on always showing one "face" to the kids. No good cop bad cop thing.
But, I dare say, even the passive aggressive as words sound like describing H. I need to look into it some more but I am no longer dealing with it. It's his issue to figure out.
I'm so sorry you are out of patience, but I can't blame you either. I know my XW has a TON of issues on her own, but maybe she also ran out of patience w/me.
It is understandable and also sad that by the time he figures it out - and he will if he sticks w/IC and the C is challenging him - your M will be over for good.
It isn't surprising he blamed you and said you were "crazy" earlier, as I would have done the same thing. Denial and projection. It is much easier to blame than to take the blame and fix. He's a mess and has a long road ahead of him. Unfortunately for him, you are so far ahead of him and he may have missed the boat completely.
That said, as Kerry mentioned, a year is an awful long time from when the D is filed and when it is finalized. If you truly want to move on, then do. File and move forward.
I would also ask you to tell his IC that he has the year to "really start to get it" b/c once the papers are signed, it is over w/no going back... EVER!
That way, if you see his signs of REAL change, you can always delay or put off the official papers if you need more time. Just like those Iraqis, once you set a firm "withdrawl" date, he's got to either act or be left completely on his own.
In the interim, still do your best to try and see him as the drowning man he is. I know it is hard to put the anger aside b/c you've been the only one working on the M, so you are frustrated. It is completely natural and I've been there myself.
Try as I may, I still get completely pissed at XW and have to force myself to look at her w/compassion and empathy. She's drowning in her own sea of denial, repression, guilt, and displacement, so as long as I can remember that, I do ok w/not wanting to rip her a new one constantly.
That seems to be the next hurdle we all have to learn to clear once the M is over... Forgiveness - which is still tough to fathom how it is for our benefit instead of theirs. Logically, I get it, but emotionally, it makes no sense to me.
Finally, I hope you don't think I was referring to you as being scary or even mean to your H. He deserves what he's getting, but psychologically, he can't produce anything else at this stage.
Love to you as always, my dear...and I've still got your back.
Just my opinion, but there's WAY too much self-diagnosis leading to LABELS.
Labels give us something to point our fingers at. They give us something to hide behind. They become rationalization for our actions.
Choose whatever labels we want, the bottom line is that we all have a CHOICE. While I certainly am not saying that people need to stay in relationships that are dangerous to them, some of the seemingly worst marriages around are capable of healing.
What it takes for an individual to find the motivation to change destructive behaviors is different for all. No one should allow another to control their lives. But there is quite a large space between being free to live your life and being divorced.
K, I do not write this only or even necessarily for, you. I am seeing much posting lately pointing fingers at a label as reasons for giving up on a marriage. In some cases, the same label that was present when the individuals came here to try to save their marriages.
We should all strive to have enough confidence in our decisions that we do not require labeling our spouse with some "condition" in order to justify our new direction.
Again, just my opinion.
Blessings,
Bill
Last edited by Bworl; 03/01/0911:00 PM.
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
