Over the Shock - Detaching and GALing

[Thinker]

I did read your "4 degrees of love" quote, but now can't find it again.

It was interesting - thought to myself, wow, I have been stuck on 2 for a long time, and only recently started progressing.

I agree that I haven't detached enough. I was definitely in the same place - trying to control my W and (having read too many R books) was indeed smothering my W, especially after the bomb when I went into full blanket mode (card, flowers, gifts, etc etc).

I still find myself in the trap of "If I do this, then she will come back". I am doing pretty well at the GAL, and am having a lot more fun in life than I was even before the bomb. Also in better shape and taking better care of myself.

I have only recently started doing things for myself even if she doesn't like them. A lot of the GAL's were to impress her, but most are becoming more.

I read "Codependent no more" once, but read it on a plane where it was difficult to work through some of the emotional aspects, and wasn't able to do the exercises. That's next.

This has been a painful journey so far for me, but I think it is going to be so worth it in the end.

[NewMe]

Thinker,

Your head seems like it's in a good place and you're doing all the right things. Detaching is in varying degrees, and I think I only got the full DETACHING stage, when I was 99% sure that the D was coming and I had better get detached quick. On the co-dependence book, you might want to try the audio version. It's about 8 hours, but the reader's voice is very calming and I've listened to most of it 3 or 4 times. You can get it off audible.com (or through Amazon), or the iTunes store and put it on your iPod or MP3 player. I like to listen to these books while working out at the gym - two birds with one stone.

DBing has been great and life-changing for the most part, but, at least for me, on the M side, it focuses too much attention on what I should do (180's, GALing, not pursuing) for the M, to get my W back. It also causes one to watch the W's every action and reaction to gauge effectiveness and offer hope. I used to journal every morning as to what my W's and my interactions were the previous day - what she did, what she said, etc. Talk about "other-centeredness". I also did the same with my DB coach spending 45 minutes of the session talking about my W. The obvious control lesson for me was that you can only control yourself.

I had read it before here but cringed at the prospect - many posters talked about losing their M, but finding themselves, growing, being happy and healthy and looking forward to their post-D life. I just HATED reading that, because I was insistent, my M was going to survive. Now that it seems like it's not, I found myself, found some calm, and now after I endure the pain, I will not only be alright, but be in a better life that I will create.

There's no denying that the kids' thing SUCKS, but most of us want the best for them - they'll be OK, And there will be positive effects for them when they aren't living with a mom and dad that don't love and respect each other.

NM

[NewMe]

I was reading a parenting book (scream-free parenting) when the author gave his interpretation of St. Bernard of Clairvaux's four degrees of love, which centered around balancing love of self and love of god, but applied it to the parental, or any (spousal) relationship. Disclaimer - I am not a theologian and am paraphrasing the author's interpretation.

The Four Degrees of Love
1) I love ME for MY benefit - selfish and infantile. Serving only and considering only oneself. Like children act when they are young.

2) I love YOU for MY benefit - loving so you can get validation, a good sense from being needed - like Cheap Trick sang "I need you to need me".

3) I love YOU for YOUR benefit - sounds selfless, but also serving. Doing all for another, with no benefit to self, can expose hidden self interests and create martyrdom.

4) I love ME for YOUR benefit - the highest form of love. Taking care of yourself, making yourself whole and making yourself happy - so no one else has to. When you complete yourself first, only then, can you truly give without expectations or needing care.

I read about GALing here, knew I needed to take care of myself and then might be able to bust my D. The topic also came up in MC and IC, as the W was exhausted from giving and being needed. When I read this piece the other night it really (finally) hit home.

Not sure if this missing piece can save this M - there's too many wounds at present. I do know, it will help me continue on to be the best person I can be and to allow me to truly give love to my kids and my mate(one day).

NM

[Thinker]

Thanks NM for reposting that here.

I can see that I started the M in 2, moved to 3 some time ago. I also understand the need to move to 4.

You mentioned your W's being worn out from being needed. I was watching my W with our son's the other day. They were all over her "Mommy, Mommy, Mommy" - interrupting her, touching her, etc - vying for her attention - and she was going crazy inside and barely putting up with it. She finally broke through with "Stop! just leave me alone!" I thought to myself "She really does not need me to be yet another needy person she has to take care of emotionally"

I admit that I have recently begun to think to myself "Man, all of the M's in these forums seem to be going slowly downhill. Is anyone able to save their M?" I have wondered if maybe there are, but when the M starts to get better, they drop off and stop posting, or whether maybe there is not that much hope. Now I realize that in my M, there is some Hope, but it is completely dependent on me becoming a strong happy person that in no way resembles on of the kids begging for attention. It is going to be a struggle, but I have to find a way to "Lovingly Detach" - stay here, stay supportive or become even more so (My W is going to need a lot of support in the coming months), but at the same time detach.

That's the emotional how to I am struggling with - detached but friendly, fun, supportive and present.

[NewMe]

Thinker,

As I was reading "co-dependence...", as I saw much of myself in there, I also saw much of my W - especially from the caretaker perspective. My W chose to be a SAHM for almost 10 years. She reveled in it and took great pride in her role. She gave so much to the kids, from hours daily at the playground and play dates in the early years to school room mom and PTA volunteering in later years. She is also the nuturer and attention-giver. Most nights at the dinner table, the three kids are taking turns conversing with her. She also has great listening skills, which I need to learn from.

Anyway, you're right on that your W does not need to take care of you. I finally learned that one and will be better with my next mate. It doesn't stop on the emotional needs either - help around the house and doing your fair share, whether she is working or not goes a LONG way. Read "Five Love Languages" if you haven't - my W's primary language is Service.

All for now.

NM

[Thinker]

So today is W's birthday, and we have been celebrating it. As I mentioned earlier, I wanted to make sure it was a good birthday - really for her, not for me. She is going through a lot with her mothers cancer and she needs some cheer and distraction.

I took her out to dinner last night - fun and cordial, although I could tell that she was a bit uncomfortable at times, and there were some long pauses in the conversation. I gave her a birthday present - jewelry, but nothing over the top. She was pleased and put it on -- and is wearing it again today.

This morning we snuggled a bit, and she asked for a back rub, which I gave her. I can tell that when I do that, she get's turned on - but still does not want ML with me. Either she is thinking of OM or something about ML with me or our history is turning her off. Either way I'm not going to obsess about it.

We had a birthday party for her at church, and then I had the boys give her some small presents and some flowers and a card "from them" this morning. Although she does not know it, I have some friends of hers coming over for cake and ice cream this evening.

It is all probably a bit much for our current sitch, but I believe birthdays are special and did not want to just let it go by.

I know that she is still trying to maintain a basic friendship / contact with OM. I really believe he is staying away from her for fear of the potential damage to his M, but I think she is not ready to let go of him and thinks she can maintain some sort of relationship with him as a "dear friend".

As for me, I am getting ready to start in on "No More Mr. Nice Guy", am working out almost every day and feeling pretty good about myself. In the past week I started growing a goatee/mustache which I think looks pretty good. It was always out of my comfort zone to to that before. A couple of days ago my W sais "I'm not sure how I feel about this (waves hand around her mouth) stuff you are growing" I responded "That's OK, I don't really care" (and I don't. If she asked me to shave I wouldn't). I am also trying to build up some more friendships outside of my W's circle of friends - more of a safe environment for me.

I am feeling a lot more detached than I have in a long time - which is good. I am more comfortable with the idea of a potential D in the future, I am not as worried as I was about her, etc. I am definitely not there yet, though. Although I am no longer worried about her every emotional swing, and no longer trying to engage her constantly, I still miss her, want intimacy, want to ML etc and am finding it very hard to put all of that out of my mind when we are living together and she is close at hand, beautiful, and unavailable.

I'll keep working on it.

[Thinker]

Hi NewMe,

I had the same thought as I was reading it -- wow, think this was my W a couple of years ago - focused on supporting me and our kids as a SAHM. She was obviously miserable, and I was clueless, and now the roles have reversed.

[Thinker]

After a lot of introspection, IC, etc, I have a couple of things that I really would like to say to my W, but which I haven't yet because 1) It violates the no R discussion rule and 2) I am not sure how she would react.

I would like to tell her.
1) I am really sorry for the hurt and abandonment that she felt during the early years of our M. That I have reviewed those years through a different viewpoint, and can now see how she must have felt, and I am sorry for it.

2) I forgive her for the EA (I do) and although it was painful, I am no longer obsessing over it or even thinking about it that often (true).

I know that if I don't open up the subject and start the discussion, it will never come up. My W just does not start R discussion with me - she never has unless forced by something outside of her control - a MC session for example. Otherwise she will keep everything superficial, keep a small smile on her face, and keep her feelings to herself (or discuss them only with friends).

I do want her to know these things, but don't want to start or force the discussion.

Any advice??

[NewMe]

After a lot of introspection, IC, etc, I have a couple of things that I really would like to say to my W, but which I haven't yet because 1) It violates the no R discussion rule and 2) I am not sure how she would react.
...
Any advice??

Thinker,

I have more thoughts on you latest posts, but little time today. If you want my advice, and something I wouldn't be the poster boy on, it's that do not talk about YOU, YOUR FEELINGS, ETC. Your W wants to see changes - and see that they are permanent. She wants to heal and feel better with you - especially if you are competing with an OM. She doesn't want to hear talk.

I assume you've given her at least one heart-felt apology already for the mistakes in your M. Most WAW's don't want to rehash things. Detach here too. Show her, don't tell her. Easy? No. But, essential. Give her space on the talk issue.

All for now.

NM

[Thinker]

Thanks - I hadn't said anything yet, and I think the urge has passed. It is hard.

I have also been reading a ton of books like "Codependent No More" and "No More Mr. Nice Guy" - which spark a lot of thoughts and emotions in me. It is pretty hard to read these under the same roof with my W and not talk about them, but so far I have been doing OK. I was reading in the Living room last night and she walked in and asked what I was reading - really just trying to start a conversation. I had to avoid the question, and then refuse to answer it when she pushed. She walked away a little miffed with a "whatever", but I didn't want to get into what I was reading and why.