Based upon how you've described your relationhip and my own experience, I could have predicted how she responded to you this morning. I've made the same mistake myself -- multiple times.
In essence. you're now pushing the sexual relationship too hard, too fast. You're trying to go from something like once a month to twice a week or so --> eight times more frequent than before. You're asking her to sprint, when she's barely able (or willing) to walk with you right now.
As the ladies have told you, between work, school, and child, she's feeling very OVERWHELMED right now. Just a few months ago, she was feeling so distant from you and distraught by your relationship (or lack thereof) that she nearly became a WAW.
* You have a lot of trust to rebuild in her eyes -- and that takes time and effort.
* You have a lot of old resentment on her part AND YOUR OWN, to get past, and that takes time, positive (repairing) changes of behavior to impliment, and lots of tearful discussions to get past.
* You have lots of 'conditioned responses' to get past in regard to how she responds to your touch, both sexually and non-sexually.
Overcoming all of the above will require a LONG-TERM viewpoint and approach on your part. You can't, and won't be able to fix your R overnight. When *both* partners are working on it, it generally takes about 1-2 months for every 1 year that you have been married to really set things back on track again.
Since you've been going over my old threads, and are working towards 'manning up' in your own relationship (including its sexual component), I'll share something with you. At this point in my relationship with my wife (after 1 1/2 years of the two of us working to repair and improve our marriage dramatically), I enjoy blanket-consent for approaching my wife for sexual intimacy whenever I like, perhaps even going through some initial resistance: if I've completely misjudged the situation or her physical/mental state, she has a safe-word to use, and has done so on a couple of occasions. Initially you might think that this is a man's dream come true: sex-on-demand, anytime you like, and with no rejections!
In reality however, the arrangement has made me *far more* sensitive to my wife's mood, physical state, how emotionally connected and satisfied she's feeling with me, and so forth. In general, I rarely like one-sided, satisfy-the-man-only sex, and therefore want to create the environment where if I seduce her, she can respond to me and enjoy it just as much as I will. That means moderating my own sexual desires and finding compromise areas. For example, frequency wise, my natural frequency for sex is something like once every 1-2 days or so, while my wife's natural frequency right now is something like once a week (that is a *dramatic* improvement over the past year, and it continues to improve): so about twice a week is a good compromise frequency for us, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less, depending upon the circumstances (Obviously, I'm not saying that this is what would work for you right now, just where we currently are). I also keep in mind her preferred 'conditions' for sex (see the SSM book), and generally don't stray too far from them, except for the occasional 'special' circumstance. I've read many accounts on the Taken In Hand website of other men responding to this privilege in exactly the same way: the women are initially apprehensive that it will be abused, but the loving, responsible, smart husbands never do so.
What I'm going to recommend to you is that you start treating your own sexual relationship with your wife as if you currently enjoy the same sort of blanket-consent, with all of the responsibility that goes along with it (you still have to take a "No", of course). What I mean is this: START veiwing your sexual relationship as if you are the one in control and in charge of making it work properly -- for *both* of you. STOP viewing your wife as the one in control (a position which I can just about guarantee she hates and resents). STOP viewing yourself as a dog begging for table scraps from a fickle master --> this is especially un-manly, un-masculine, un-attractive to her, and goes against all the NMMNG work you've been doing. Be smart. If she's starting to feel pressured, if she's feeling like your every touch is all part of a covert plan to get her back into bed again, then you aren't going to get what you want by continueing to push (nor by yelling or getting angry). Accept how she's feeling AT FACE VALUE, and act accordingly.
Hang in there, and keep trying -- I've been in your shoes, and it wasn't that long ago either.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
EDIT: oops nevermind, didn't see Bagheera's last post.
Last edited by spellfire; 03/01/0905:52 AM.
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
Gonna meditate on what you are saying. We did ML tonight, but it wasn't that good. The strange thing is that it was actually me that wasn't very into it. This is a first for me, and it feels like it is the result of the changes in me. Does that make any sense?
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
Just wanted to say thank you to Bagheera on behalf of myself as last night was extremely frustrating to me. I really needed what was said. We went out and all day we were extremely physically affectionate (at least it sure did seem like it) and when we went to bed, I tried to seduce her by rubbing my hand on her stomach and moving my way up to her breast she stopped me, I stopped completely, and went downstairs mad as hell, but I did not show it to her, although she probably knows why I went downstairs.
Anyway, I am up before her this morning and really needed Bagheera to set me straight of how long this might take.
Does she not see how much this hurts me, does she know it, and in turn punishing me for my over zealous sexual requirments of the past?
Do you have any any idea how many times I have done EXACTLY what you just described?
This is one of the biggest challenged for us HDs, being able to take rejection in our stride and not get angry and resentful. Don't feel too bad, as good as things are going for me, I still do it most of the time. It is still excruciatingly challenging.
I am almost tempted to hit on her when I am not really interested, just so I can get rejected and laugh it off in front of her. The only difficulty there is finding a time I am not interested.
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
OK Mike, Get this, I go to the bathroom right after I post the last message. She comes down, I thought for sure she would sleep in, and when I come out she is reading what I had written, I run over and say hey that is private and click it off.
She says who are you writing to, I said I have kind of a support group and I dont have a counselor (like she does). I go up stairs and she is upstairs soon after. She shuts the door and gets on the bed, she then begins to tell me she wanted to ml last night but knew our oldest son was awake and did not want it to get serious until she knew he was asleep, she then said that she could not keep awake. But she was thrilled where we are now, and how we can discuss things without it getting into a fight.
Anyway it was kind of a breakthrough for us, as I know now she is interested again, and that she is happy with how we've been gettting through everything. I told her that I was thanking a guy on this site that was telling me to be a man and not a little baby because no one wants to ml to a whinny little baby. She said it is a cyclical thing to her, as she would feel pressure from me to ml, then feel guilty about not doint it, then really not want to do it, and so on and so on. ANyway I am busting about our conversation about the R and feel a whole lot better about everything!
Now she has a damn migrain so it might not be tonight, but that is OK with me, I know that I can wait until she feels good about it, whether that is tonight, tomorrow, next week, but this morning was great!
That is really great. I thought you were going to say that she freaked out on you for telling others what is going on, even under a pseudoname. I think the cycle she described fits my wife to a t. The challenge is it is a "2 to tango" cycle that she could stop as well. In the past, my wife has never seen or maybe been willing to admit that part of it.
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
Wow burt, breakthrough indeed. I'm super happy for you man!
Just don't get discouraged if there is a backstep somewhere. Experience tells me it is bound to happen at some point and you need to have faith in this material, and that it is just a hiccup. It may be helpful to tell W "I'm sure we will have our off days, but if we both stay positive they should be few and far between".
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
I told her that I was thanking a guy on this site that was telling me to be a man and not a little baby because no one wants to ml to a whinny little baby.
Ouch! [laughing here] I was trying to firm, but not scathing....
Just know that I've been in your shoes, guys. In fact my initial thread here (12/06/07) was about Accepting a Rejection....Gracefully: before I had ever heard of Glover or Dieda, and my wife hadn't yet admitted to me that part of what was missing for her was my lack of 'manning up' in our onw relationship.
I've learned lot since then.
Take care,
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
