"that's between your dad & I to work out, we both love you very much, you'll always have both of us in your lives every day, none of this is your fault. Sometimes adults just can't compromise on really big issues"
then when H tells the kids something designed to be hurtful to me. I say:
"it's unfortunate that he chooses to draw you into our adult relationship. It's not your responsibiity to fix. It's sad to me that he feels that way, you're going to hear a lot of things in the next few months, not necessarily the truth"
then when they ask "where are you going to live, where's dad going to live, what's happening to us"
I say:
"I'm not sure on all the details, but we're not taking you away from your school, friends, or environment. No matter what. Also, I hope that we'll close enough that you can ride your bike back & forth every day if you want."
Lastly. Be strong for them. They need to know that someone is in control of the chaos. Even if you have to fake it.
Doc says the farm animals all watch each other. If some of them are losing it, the others think they should be losing it too.
hope that helps
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
oh, & for the family activity. If it was me, I'd plan it, let her know what's going on, invite her to join if she wants. If not, you show S11 that you are still a family. Just a different one than he's had.
If she chooses not to join, tell S that people change their minds at times, & it's okay to do that. That gives him permission to change his mind about things he says he would do, then later prefers not to.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
I asked W if she would come to the movies with me and the kids tomorrow, as S11 had asked to do something as a family.
Well, that just set off a bomb.
W- "No, I don't think we should do that. It would give the kids the wrong idea"
me-"What do you mean?"
W- "I just don't want them to think anything has changed between us."
me- "Nothing has changed, I'm just suggesting we do something all together because we told the kids we would try and do something as a family once a week."
W- "They're going to have to face it sooner or later"
me - "What are you talking about?"
W- "I just don't see us living together any more?"
me - "Ever?"
W - "No, I keep thinking that if something was going to change, it would have by now. I can't deny my feelings, I just don't have those feelings for you any more, and I don't think I ever will"
me - "I can understand that your feelings have changed. I'm also holding on to hope that they will change again"
W- "They won't, you deserve someone who really loves you."
me- "You know we'll always be connected through the kids, and I won't ever stop loving you."
W- "I can't understand why you do after all I've put you through"
me- "I promised you I would love you forever. I meant what I said."
W - "I know"
me - "And I'm not asking for any decision or anything. I'm giving you the space you asked for, let's just leave it at that."
W- "whatever"
So that was the gist of the conversation. No eye contact, W looked extremely somber, I tried to project PMA but I know my voice was probably shaky.
I know I broke so many of the Db rules, getting drawn into a R discussion, but it was like a runaway freight train. It just kept picking up speed and I couldn't derail it.
So how do I recover from this? I know I need to detach more and not talk R any more, but now it seems like she has made her decision, and the next step is the lawyers. Is there a glimmer of hope in there, or am I deluding myself?
I understand the runaway train, I get on it sometimes too.
okay...... there's always hope.
Right now, you are coming across as chasing her. You sound a bit needy & clingy & scared. That's a huge turn off to a woman. She can walk away & you're putting out vibes that you'll follow her.
You've got to put off vibes that you're walking the other direction.
Even the way you asked her to go to the movies put some guilt into it & bringing up S11. You're using the kids as a pawn. Leave them out of it.
Remind yourself every day that you're good enough all on your own to capture her heart again.
Don't invite her to anything for two - three weeks.
Next time you do invite her say
"we're going to the movies, wanna go?"
if she says yes, you say ok. if she says no, you say ok. if she says eat worms & die you say ok. got it ?
do you know if she has an appt with an attorney ?
in the meantime, you be the best you that you can be. Be polite, but not a door mat. Be helpful & pay extra attention to the kids. Give her time & space.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
No attorney that I know of, I don't know if she would tell me if she had met with one.
And you are right - needy clingy and scared is a good description of how I feel. I know I have to change that. My self-esteem is at an all time low, and I can't figure out how to raise it, but I continue to fake it as best I can.
I'm not as freaked out about our conversation as I was yesterday when I posted, which was right after she left. My mind was reeling then, but after thinking it over for a while I realize that I sprung the whole "lets do something as a family, for S11 sake" and she reacted by digging her heels in .... she already told me she was "done" when we are in MC last month, so she's really not saying anything new.
Looking at the interaction objectively, I realize I was testing the waters, trying to get some reassurance that things were moving in the right direction. She confirmed that nothing had changed, and she wasn't willing to even give a hint of that.
So I'm back to square one. Serves me right for not following the rules, but I guess backsliding is part of the process. I've got to learn from this, not make the same mistake again, and get back to DBing.
Hang in there song. I backslid yesterday and told W that she needed to tell me what she wanted. Then she asked me what I wanted and I said that I want to work on things (M) and do whatever it takes to bring us back together. Her reply was I just don't see what this is possible after all that has happened and is continuing to happen. So I understand what you are going through. I know it is tough because this is absolutely killing me.
Oh well, I am about to watch Fireproof. May be a bad idea but I want to see a happy ending and hope and pray yours and mine can end that way too
W- "No, I don't think we should do that. It would give the kids the wrong idea"
me-"What do you mean?"
W- "I just don't want them to think anything has changed between us."
These are practical comments from your W...as much as they hurt...and she is being open and factual.
Quote:
me- "Nothing has changed, I'm just suggesting we do something all together because we told the kids we would try and do something as a family once a week."
This is clingy and totally impractical if this ends up in D. Whether she is in MLC or not...or making bad decisions or not...you are failing to see how she feels about you NOW (perhaps better later) and this causes pressure on her. If YOU REALLY NEED TO DO THIS...which I don't recommend you do, you could do what SC mentions above. Simply say that you are doing x,y and z with the kids this weekend and that she is welcome to join you PERIOD. Dragging the kids thru family things when she DOES NOT WANT TO BE THERE is going to have a negative effect on YOU and YOUR CHILDREN.
Quote:
W- "They're going to have to face it sooner or later"
A true statement and a practical one.
Quote:
me - "What are you talking about?"
W- "I just don't see us living together any more?"
me - "Ever?"
Song...desperate....sad....fear. Is this what she needs from you?
Quote:
W - "No, I keep thinking that if something was going to change, it would have by now. I can't deny my feelings, I just don't have those feelings for you any more, and I don't think I ever will"
me - "I can understand that your feelings have changed. I'm also holding on to hope that they will change again"
Baseball bat....wuss and begging/pleading.
Quote:
W- "They won't, you deserve someone who really loves you."
me- "You know we'll always be connected through the kids, and I won't ever stop loving you."
W- "I can't understand why you do after all I've put you through"
Translated: this guy is totally not in touch with himself or his emotions. He's smothering me and no matter what I say to him he gives me this 'dreck'. She tells you that here. Think song. Why would ANYONE say the above things when they are being treated this way????
Quote:
W - "I know"
me - "And I'm not asking for any decision or anything. I'm giving you the space you asked for, let's just leave it at that."
W- "whatever"
Bargaining: I'll give you your space, then, you come back to me and love me again. Read her response:
Whatever....
Song...I am sorry. I am not here to hurt your feelings or come across as one of those "well HE'S getting a D so he just wants me to also"
Poppycock.
YOU DON'T HAVE A CHANCE THE WAY YOU ARE DOING THIS.
Step outside of yourself for a minute and look at you/the sitch. Would YOU want to be with YOU right now? Would another woman look at this and see attraction?
I am not perfect but would this have been better?
Quote:
W- "No, I don't think we should do that. It would give the kids the wrong idea"
me-"What do you mean?"
W- "I just don't want them to think anything has changed between us.
W- "They're going to have to face it sooner or later"
You're right. They will and I will grieve the pain they our children will go thru. If you feel strongly about this, then, we will have our family weekends without you. Should you change your mind, you'll be welcome to have fun again.
Quote:
W- "I just don't see us living together any more?"
W - "No, I keep thinking that if something was going to change, it would have by now. I can't deny my feelings, I just don't have those feelings for you any more, and I don't think I ever will"
I'm sorry you feel that way. Marriage is a choice and if you feel the need to leave it and try and find something better, then the door is open for you to go. I love you enough that I would never deny you your need to explore your feelings.
Quote:
W- "They won't, you deserve someone who really loves you."
You are right. I DO deserve to be loved as do you.
Quote:
W- "I can't understand why you do after all I've put you through"
..because I chose to honor my commitment to our marriage and preserve our family. I am willing to give this another try and commit myself 100% if you are willing to do the same. If not, I won't let my spirit be destroyed.
Song...this could have played out thousands of other ways. Some of my responses may 'suck' to other people. My point: I am not saying give up. I am not saying file. I am not saying stop loving her and start dating other women.
What I DO want you to do is BE AWARE that you are still saying things that choke, smother, push, pressure, etc.
Is there a 180 here?
THINK.
THINK.
THINK.
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
PS..as for the kids...be honest....be positive...do NOT denigrate your wife. Remember, she will ALWAYS be their MOM and they LOVE HER.
My daughter recently said to me that 'divorce will not be good for me daddy."
How the heck do you respond to a 5 year old darling little girl...to that?
We HAVE to song.
I tell her similar to what SC said....that we weill all be happy someday soon....that this has nothing to do with her....that I love her, will take care of her forever, that I will ALWAYS be her daddy..always listen to her and be there for her. If she persists about something, I will only say that 'mommy and daddy sometimes get very sad together when we are together and that we will all be happy soon.'
It IS sad and I pray that you are in the 5% here. Learn from your posters. Take that which works...discard that which doesn't. You know your W better than we do.
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
You are right, FIB, I didn't handle the interaction well, I choked under pressure.
I thought at the time I was handling it well because I validated her feelings (I understand that your feelings have changed) and I was remaining positive and upbeat. Now that I look back and read your interpretation, I realize how much better I could have handled it.
W - "No, I keep thinking that if something was going to change, it would have by now. I can't deny my feelings, I just don't have those feelings for you any more, and I don't think I ever will"
I actually got the same thing from my wife Sat nite. Ironically just 2 nite earlier (Thurs nite) we were intimate for the first time since she dropped the bomb (we were almost intimate about 1.5 weeks after she dropped the bomb, but she freaked out about how it didn't feel right so we stopped).
She said she feels that if she hadn't found a reason in 8 weeks to change her mind, there isn't one. So now she's trying to figure out how to move forward with the separation instead. Very sad.
I don't know how to move forward/continue either. So I feel for you
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
